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Twins fire Dougie Baseball

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#21 mikecgrimes

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:13 PM

 

And random conjecture is a more credible source?

I will go with Doug on this one (have met him several times over the years,he's a straight shooter)

 

You think you got his real personality.Chuck Knoblauch is also likable when he wants to be.

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#22 Physics Guy

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:20 PM

why is a manager sticking up for his players a bad thing?


It's not. My guess is you are referencing his ejection when Sano got tossed for yelling at the opposing dugout after hitting a home run three pitches after being thrown at. Yeah fine, no problem with that. Not sure these other two are the same.

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http://www.foxsports...cle-game-081813
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#23 Thrylos

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:21 PM

 

This season has been and is fun, in spite of how the new dynamic duo went soft in July.

 

Soft? 

They traded an A level prospect for 2 AA/AAA prospects (and Garcia got them a win in the meantime)

They signed Colon who solidified the back end of the rotation. Somewhat.

They got rid of Kintzer at top top top value

And they got a top reliever for JR Murphy

Soft?

 

This was supposed to be an evaluation year.

They are competing, thankfully, but the cards are against them, and I doubt that they could had stacked them differently.

 

Next off-season will be very telling.

Edited by Thrylos, 15 September 2017 - 08:25 PM.

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#24 drivlikejehu

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:29 PM

 

Not even close to the same thing.

 

He's not some 9-5 worker trying to feed his family, he's a millionaire many times over that doesn't even need the job. This is all about his ego.

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#25 crop duster

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:40 PM

Soft?
They traded an A level prospect for 2 AA/AAA prospects (and Garcia got them a win in the meantime)
They signed Colon who solidified the back end of the rotation. Somewhat.
They got rid of Kintzer at top top top value
And they got a top reliever for JR Murphy
Soft?

This was supposed to be an evaluation year.
They are competing, thankfully, but the cards are against them, and I doubt that they could had stacked them differently.

Next off-season will be very telling.

Yes soft, aquire a serviceable back end starter who couldve contributed a few more wins and then panic and trade him for two powerball tickets. Oh sorry I meant can't miss prospects that will someday arrive to help the future immaculate team that goes 162-0 and makes a deep playoff run. Normally dumpster diving to grab a player with numbers like colon had is not an act of genius. Somehow he's found a way to contribute but he ain't leading this team on a playoff run.

Somehow I can't agree trading an effective closer for a wad of cash is a genius move either. So kinzler would've left after this year anyway, in the mean time we wouldn't have Matt freakin belisle attempting to close out games.


Strange that a "top reliever" is a guy who just made his debut...

Edited by crop duster, 15 September 2017 - 08:44 PM.


#26 Seth Stohs

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:49 PM

 

Mientkiewicz is a stridently old-school guy that isn't necessarily a great fit for the way the front office wants to build the organization. He knows it, too, which is why I think his comments were at least a bit disingenuous. He's ticked off and telling his side of the story. He's the kind of guy that is going to be pissed at being fired and there's really no approach that would have avoided that outcome.

 

Mientkiewicz has never really had a filter... He's very old school, and like you said, that doesn't mesh with the new regime... and that's fine. I do think the timing and not being willing to tell him why was bad. He does deserve that. 

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#27 drjim

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:56 PM

Did they not tell him why he was not retained, or was it that Steil wouldn't say if it was his call or higher up?

Also, was it known before this article that Steil was getting a promotion? Good move, in my mind, to keep him.
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#28 drivlikejehu

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:57 PM

 

Mientkiewicz has never really had a filter... He's very old school, and like you said, that doesn't mesh with the new regime... and that's fine. I do think the timing and not being willing to tell him why was bad. He does deserve that. 

 

Interestingly, he never actually claims they didn't tell him why. The article gives that impression because Levine wouldn't say publicly, but the question Mientkiewicz himself posed was different - he asked who made the decision, which is really a nonsense question since he knows full well who would be part of that conversation and who has final say. He just wanted ammo to use with the press.

Edited by drivlikejehu, 15 September 2017 - 08:58 PM.

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#29 drjim

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:01 PM

Interestingly, he never actually claims they didn't tell him why. The article gives that impression because Levine wouldn't say publicly, but the question Mientkiewicz himself posed was different - he asked who made the decision, which is really a nonsense question since he knows full well who would be part of that conversation and who has final say. He just wanted ammo to use with the press.


I imagine Mientkiewicz had a pretty good relationship with Steil and wanted to hear him say it. Probably obvious that Steil would tell Dougie had it been his call.
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#30 Carole Keller

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:01 PM

Mod note: a reminder to everyone, whether or not you agree with these changes, whether you are celebratory or disdainful, please be respectful of one another and those who have been let go.
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#31 drivlikejehu

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:11 PM

 

I imagine Mientkiewicz had a pretty good relationship with Steil and wanted to hear him say it. Probably obvious that Steil would tell Dougie had it been his call.

 

There's not a good answer to that question. Technically everything is the responsibility of Falvey. But on something like a minor league coach, he would be relying on other people to provide input. It's a group decision-making process. 

 

The front office did not want to bring him back. It wasn't personal . . . he wanted to move in that direction because he was upset, but it wasn't a legitimate question.

Edited by drivlikejehu, 15 September 2017 - 09:11 PM.

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#32 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:12 PM

Dougie doesn't have the temperament to go much further than class A manager. Loved him as a Twins first baseman, though.
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#33 SwainZag

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:20 PM

Dougie wasn't a Falvey hire, they were only in the organization a year together....I don't really see the big issue here. 


#34 drjim

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:22 PM

There's not a good answer to that question. Technically everything is the responsibility of Falvey. But on something like a minor league coach, he would be relying on other people to provide input. It's a group decision-making process.

The front office did not want to bring him back. It wasn't personal . . . he wanted to move in that direction because he was upset, but it wasn't a legitimate question.


I agree with you on all counts. I understand why the front office made the move, I understand why Mientkiewicz asked the question, and I appreciate why Steil didn't answer.
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#35 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:45 PM

Realistically, if you are Falvey and Levine, and this guy is climbing up the coaching ranks in your organization, but you conclude he will not be going much higher, and is not the right guy with not the right emphasis you want to impart to your up-coming kids, you let him know that at the first available moment, so he can find a coaching job elsewhere.

 

Sounds like Mcz has process issues, but he comes across as a little vindinctive in his quotes, not something the industry will really prize in an org guy.

 

 

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#36 luckylager

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 10:44 PM

:( Sorry to see him go. One of my favorite Twins of the last 20 years and seemed like a good MLB managerial candidate. He'll no doubt land another gig somewhere else.

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#37 Tom Froemming

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 10:56 PM

Wanted to pass along a few things I shared on Twitter. This is just me connecting some dots, I have no idea if there's anything to this ... but,

 

I remembered this story from last year in which Stephen Gonsalves kinda sold out Dougie for breaking an org rule/philosophy at the time. 

 

"I was going out with 91 pitches, and I think normally there's a Twins rule that you're not allowed to start an inning after 85 pitches," Gonsalves said. "Doug was confident in me and I appreciate that. I was waiting, watching him out of the corner of my eye in the dugout. He walked by and was sitting by the water jug, taking little glances at me."

 

That got me thinking about who he was most responsible for protecting this year. Lachlan Wells, who's still only 20, threw over 100 pitches in three-straight outings in late June. He missed all of July and most of August with a flexor mass strain. There was also a stretch in late August where Doug had Lewis Thorpe, who of course missed the prior two seasons, throw 97, 100 and 101 pitches in consecutive starts.

 

There's no questioning Doug was a winner and his players loved him, but I wouldn't be surprised if his dismissal has something to do with failure to adhere to team guidelines regarding starting pitchers. Again, just a complete guess. Really tough to come up with any other potential reasons/conspiracy theories :) 

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#38 biggentleben

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:19 PM

 

Yes soft, aquire a serviceable back end starter who couldve contributed a few more wins and then panic and trade him for two powerball tickets. Oh sorry I meant can't miss prospects that will someday arrive to help the future immaculate team that goes 162-0 and makes a deep playoff run. Normally dumpster diving to grab a player with numbers like colon had is not an act of genius. Somehow he's found a way to contribute but he ain't leading this team on a playoff run.

Somehow I can't agree trading an effective closer for a wad of cash is a genius move either. So kinzler would've left after this year anyway, in the mean time we wouldn't have Matt freakin belisle attempting to close out games.


Strange that a "top reliever" is a guy who just made his debut...

 

You've seen what Garcia has done with the Yankees, right? I'm not sure what stability there'd have been with him in house.

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#39 Shaitan

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:32 PM

Yes, he won minor league games. But managers rarely last more than 5 years anywhere. Add to it that Mientkiewicz has something of a history of being a divisive clubhouse guy (not AJ level, but not that far off), and this isn't surprising in the least. He seemed to be loved by the Twins as a player, but that didn't carry over to other teams.


#40 nicksaviking

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:42 PM

I was surprised by the headline.

My surprise vanished after reading Doug's quotes. Boastful and indignant and he's surprised he's not coming back when he's supposed to be shaping 20-year-olds?

I get it, my ire would be up too, but when fired, there's a reason 99.9% of all other coaches and managers thank their former employers and bite their tongues while doing it. Who does he aspire to be, Ozzie Guillen?

He's had a great career with the organization, but a lack of self control and self preservation is a poor example for young players.
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