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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 07:46 AM

 

The Twins should bring back all 12-13 of the players they are putting out there every day this year. It ain't broke, so don't fix it. These players are young and will only get better over the coming years. And yes, that includes Rosario. Not only may be their best hitter, he is part of the chemistry that will make this team special.

The pitching can be fixed without breaking up this young group.

 

How? They are going to outbid the other teams for one of hte three good FAs? They will suddenly start trading prospects? How will the pitching get fixed?

 

As for Rosario......I've fluctuated back and forth on him over the years. He always seemed like a natural hitter to me, but until this year he's shown no patience. He's a legit MLB player, the question is, is he more valuable to the Twins as a player here, or in acquiring other player(s). Without knowing the offers, I can't answer that. But, if they could get 2 minor league pitchers less than 2 years away that they believe in, I'd be tempted....

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#22 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 07:54 AM

 

How? They are going to outbid the other teams for one of hte three good FAs? They will suddenly start trading prospects? How will the pitching get fixed?

 

As for Rosario......I've fluctuated back and forth on him over the years. He always seemed like a natural hitter to me, but until this year he's shown no patience. He's a legit MLB player, the question is, is he more valuable to the Twins as a player here, or in acquiring other player(s). Without knowing the offers, I can't answer that. But, if they could get 2 minor league pitchers less than 2 years away that they believe in, I'd be tempted....

Ditto. One can think Rosario will be a fine player without loving his profile and wondering if he will cave in the moment his wrists slow a bit (probably a few years away at minimum).

 

I'm in no rush to move Eddie but trading him for a pitcher and acquiring a RH OF bat to replace him would round out the roster a bit.

 

Then again, if I have questions about Rosario, so do most GMs, making the point somewhat moot. Hard to say what kind of value he'd bring in return.

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#23 yarnivek1972

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:08 AM

Exactly. If fans can easily see the shortcomings of Rosario's game, so can professional baseball scouts and player personnel people. Contrary to an earlier post, those decision makers are not dumb.

Sure you listen. You ALWAYS listen. But one has to weigh the return vs the loss. Realistically, what are the Twins going to get for a corner OFer who has posted basically league average numbers for the first three years of his career? Might get one close to MLB ready pitcher. I doubt two. Pitching is still the far more valuable asset. Those who have it get what THEY want. Not the other way around.
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#24 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:13 AM

 

Exactly. If fans can easily see the shortcomings of Rosario's game, so can professional baseball scouts and player personnel people. Contrary to an earlier post, those decision makers are not dumb.

Sure you listen. You ALWAYS listen. But one has to weigh the return vs the loss. Realistically, what are the Twins going to get for a corner OFer who has posted basically league average numbers for the first three years of his career? Might get one close to MLB ready pitcher. I doubt two. Pitching is still the far more valuable asset. Those who have it get what THEY want. Not the other way around.

 

Well, not everyone agrees he has some tragic flaw......I don't get how people can argue he's super awesome for the Twins, but has no value to any other team. Also, teams are built on context. Some teams have lots of minor league talent, but are missing major league talent. Some teams are the opposite. Some need hitting, some need pitching.

 

This thought that somehow the Twins just are so unlucky that every other team can make trades, but somehow the Twins just can't? Silly, imo.

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#25 VirginSturgeon

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:27 AM

This whole thread seems pointless besides the trade value discussion of Rosario, otherwise he has performed well and hit the ball hard last night.  I am glad he swung at the first pitch.  I just turned and told my wife that sucks when I saw he hit right into the shift.  Baseball happens :-)

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#26 Bill

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:34 AM

Whenever Rosario comes up in an important situation, I usually say for the benefit of whoever is also in the room "Eddie.... please... you don't have to swing at the first pitch."  

 

His OPS on the first pitch is over 1000, so maybe I am dwelling too much on the times when he swings at some barely hittable pitch and gets out right away. 

 

I wonder how often MLB players are instructed to take until they get a strike.  Is that frowned upon as something for little kids? Did Polanco have a take sign in the previous at bat?  If I recall right, he squared to bunt on the first pitch... He couldn't have possibly been sacrificing (I hope, at least).  Was he just taking?

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#27 alarp33

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:40 AM

 

This whole thread seems pointless besides the trade value discussion of Rosario, otherwise he has performed well and hit the ball hard last night.  I am glad he swung at the first pitch.  I just turned and told my wife that sucks when I saw he hit right into the shift.  Baseball happens :-)

 

Swinging at the 1st pitch when a reliever on the ropes can't throw a strike is... not something to be happy about.. 

 

Rosario has had a much better year than I expected, and is learning some patience at the plate.  I do think he's one of the dumber / most frustrating players to watch.  The throws to the wrong base, swinging at a 1st pitch in that situation, etc are extremely frustrating.  Dave probably went a little overboard on his posts, but I agree with his sentiment to a degree

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#28 birdwatcher

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:40 AM

 

Until there is a viable alternative to Rosario I wouldn't trade him unless the deal is awesome.

 

 

Exactly. Trade from genuine surplus and don't leave a hole to (potentially) fill another one. Aaron Hicks and Denard Span should serve as constant reminders.


#29 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:49 AM

 

Exactly. Trade from genuine surplus and don't leave a hole to (potentially) fill another one. Aaron Hicks and Denard Span should serve as constant reminders.

 

so, do what to fix the pitching, then? Just keep trotting out Gee, Turley, Tepesch, Santiago, et. al.? The mistake in those trades was that they traded both of them, and didn't have a lot of other good OFers either. Right now, the Twins have probably got three legit OF, plus Wade and Granite as backups....and they have ESan and Berrios for SPs signed next year.....plus Mejia. That's it. You need 7-10 SPs....

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#30 rghrbek

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:16 AM

 

Swinging at the 1st pitch when a reliever on the ropes can't throw a strike is... not something to be happy about.. 

 

Rosario has had a much better year than I expected, and is learning some patience at the plate.  I do think he's one of the dumber / most frustrating players to watch.  The throws to the wrong base, swinging at a 1st pitch in that situation, etc are extremely frustrating.  Dave probably went a little overboard on his posts, but I agree with his sentiment to a degree

 

Tend to agree here.  Eddie has far exceeded my expectations with his hot streak from June until, well a week ago.  I think his bat plays at the MLB level.  He appears to be able to hit left handed pitching.

 

However, he is not very good in left field, and he is also not a very good base runner.  I just think this is who he is.  I am not super pissed at him for swinging at the first pitch last night.  We needed to drive the runner in, to at least tie the game.  It didn't happen.

 

I would be more worried about how the Twins perform against teams with adequate to above adequate SP.  Not very well.

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#31 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:38 AM

Seems like one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. I tend to agree that Rosario is unlikely to nete a quality MLB starter in a trade.The best case scenario is some other teams qualityAAA starter plus a younger guy. That may help the pitching staff in the medium or long-term but not in the short-term and also weakens the team on the field because there is no obvious replacement. Granite is at best a fourth or fifth outfielder on a contending team. He doesn't play defense well enough for his glove in center to be a calling card, and he doesn't hit well enough (not to mention he has absolutely no power) to be a quality corner outfielder. In the short term, say the next couple of years, we would have to have a free agent corner outfielder while we wait for younger picturing. That simply doesn't seem worth it to be given that we've now started to develop some pitching depth in the minors with Littel, Gonsalves, Slegers, Jorge, etc., plus Berrios and Mejia already in the majors.On balance, I think it makes a lot more sense to keep Rosario unless we could get a mid-rotation MLB starter for him and I think that's highly unlikely.

 

For what it's worth, Rosario can be infuriating but he is a better player than Delmon Young... 

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#32 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:15 AM

 

For what it's worth, Rosario can be infuriating but he is a better player than Delmon Young... 

Yes, that was an absurd statement. Young had a negative career fWAR.

 

Rosario hasn't posted a negative fWAR season. Oh, and he's 25 years old.

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#33 Brandon Warne

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:23 AM

 

Until there is a viable alternative to Rosario I wouldn't trade him unless the deal is awesome.

 

....and there is not. And nobody remotely close.

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#34 Brandon Warne

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:26 AM

He also hit the baseball fairly hard (89.3 mph). 

 

As much as it can make sense to wait out a wild pitcher, big leaguers also play by a different set of rules than we do in Base Ruth, Legion or Town Ball. Sometimes you look for that cookie after a pitcher has missed all over the place. 

 

With that said, he swung at a strike -- according to MLB Savant -- but it wasn't exactly a good pitch to swing at. 

 

Still, he has more walks this year than his previous two years combined. Rome wasn't built in a day.

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#35 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:27 AM

 

....and there is not. And nobody remotely close.

 

Nor are there enough pitchers, not remotely close.

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#36 yarnivek1972

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:34 AM

Nor are there enough pitchers, not remotely close.


Just curious what you think the Twins can get for Rosario. Because if you can't get a guy that will impact the rotation inside of 12 months, what's the point in making the trade?

Maybe they can, maybe they can't. They couldn't for Dozier. And he plays a position with lower offensive expectations than left field.
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#37 Brandon Warne

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:40 AM

 

Nor are there enough pitchers, not remotely close.

 

It doesn't really matter anyway. The Twins told teams in July they weren't trading him. 

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#38 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 10:50 AM

 

Just curious what you think the Twins can get for Rosario. Because if you can't get a guy that will impact the rotation inside of 12 months, what's the point in making the trade?

Maybe they can, maybe they can't. They couldn't for Dozier. And he plays a position with lower offensive expectations than left field.

 

It's not my job to know the answer to that.....and I posted comments about that above. But no one has said how they'll add pitching next year, when asked, if not Rosario, how...

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#39 Jham

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:02 AM

Query: who has more trade value, Rosario or Kepler? Who is the better player? Who has more upside? Who is more likely to reach their ceiling? Who would you rather have going forward? Who would other teams rather have?

#40 ashburyjohn

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:06 AM

Query: who has more trade value, Rosario or Kepler? Who is the better player? Who has more upside? Who is more likely to reach their ceiling? Who would you rather have going forward? Who would other teams rather have?

  1. Shop both players to all 29 teams.
  2. Note which player attracts offers you find more impressive.
  3. Trade the other player, to whichever team offered the most.
  4. Profit!

:)

 

PS. My guess is Kepler's the keeper here.

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