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Thank you Terry Ryan

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#1 puckstopper1

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:01 PM

As we celebrate Labor Day, I started thinking about the current Minnesota Twins Labor force.Who hired the majority of the Coaching staff? Who drafted, traded for or signed the majority of the current roster? It was, of course, Terry Ryan and his staff.

 

Now Ryan has been grilled extensively on this site for the past several years, rightfully so.The teams performance on the field has been horrible the majority of the past half decade, to a point where it cost Ryan his job.

 

I also want to point out that I'm fully aware that this current team has not won anything, yet.While this may be true, this team's play has shocked many this season.

 

So as I prepare to BBQ my Labor Day brats and burgers, I tip my Chef's Hat (no - it does not say "Kiss the Cook" on it :-)) to Terry Ryan and his staff for their efforts to construct the majority of a team that has us Twins fans watching meaningful baseball in September this season, and also provided some real hope for seasons to come.

Edited by puckstopper1, 04 September 2017 - 12:10 PM.

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#2 Badsmerf

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:47 PM

You're giving Ryan way too much credit.
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#3 Thrylos

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 01:47 PM

 

 

 

The teams performance on the field has been horrible the majority of the past two-and-a-half decades, to a point where it cost Ryan his job.

 

FTFY

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#4 glunn

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 02:04 PM

Moderator note -- this thread will be closely watched -- please be civil.


#5 Doomtints

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 02:09 PM

Calvin Griffith told us the Twins could not compete due to free agency.

 

Terry Ryan told us the Twins could not compete due to increasing player salaries.

 

Andy MacPhail didn't make excuses.He brought two championships with a rebuild in between.

 

The jury is still out on Levine.

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#6 mikecgrimes

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 03:15 PM

I like this team and but even if we make the playoffs were basically the 10th best team this year, the new guys have a lot to do with that, and certain moves like drafting Buxton at 2 or Mauer at 1 have nothing to do with who the GM was at the time.Basically at best Ryan gave us a league average team. 


#7 Roaddog

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 03:46 PM

I think Ryan before Bill Smith deserves a lot of credit. After Smith, not so much.
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#8 Thrylos

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 03:50 PM

 

 

Who drafted, traded for or signed the majority of the current roster? It was, of course, Terry Ryan and his staff.

 

This is kind of an interested statement, so here is the Twins active roster (signed by GM in parenthesis) :

 

9Matt Belisle R/R 6'3" 230lbs 6/6/80(Falvey)
17Jose Berrios R/R 6'0" 185lbs 5/27/94 (Ryan)
62Buddy Boshers L/L 6'3" 205lbs 5/9/88 (Ryan)
67Alan Busenitz R/R 6'1" 180lbs 8/22/90 (Antony)
40Bartolo Colon R/R 5'11" 285lbs 5/24/73(Falvey)
27John Curtiss R/R 6'4" 200lbs 4/5/93 (Ryan)
56Tyler Duffey R/R 6'3" 220lbs 12/27/90 (Ryan)
35Dillon Gee R/R 6'1" 205lbs 4/28/86(Falvey)
44Kyle Gibson R/R 6'6" 215lbs 10/23/87 (Smith)
39Trevor Hildenberger R/R 6'2" 211lbs 12/15/90 (Ryan)
15Glen Perkins L/L 6'0" 205lbs 3/2/83 (Ryan)
57Ryan Pressly R/R 6'3" 210lbs 12/15/88 (Ryan)
55Taylor Rogers L/L 6'3" 170lbs 12/17/90 (Ryan)
54Ervin Santana R/R 6'2" 175lbs 12/12/82 (Ryan)
—Aaron Slegers R/R 6'10" 245lbs 9/4/92 (Ryan)
66Nik Turley L/L 6'4" 195lbs 9/11/89(Falvey)
21Jason Castro L/R 6'3" 215lbs 6/18/87(Falvey)
38Chris Gimenez R/R 6'2" 230lbs 12/27/82(Falvey)
16Ehire Adrianza S/R 6'1" 170lbs 8/21/89(Falvey)
2Brian Dozier R/R 5'11" 200lbs 5/15/87 (Smith)
5Eduardo Escobar S/R 5'10" 185lbs 1/5/89 (Ryan)
22 Miguel Sano R/R 6'4" 260lbs5/11/93 (Smith)
43Mitch Garver R/R 6'1" 220lbs 1/15/91 (Ryan)
7Joe Mauer L/R 6'5" 225lbs 4/19/83 (Ryan)
11Jorge Polanco S/R 5'11" 200lbs 7/5/93 (Smith)
25Byron Buxton R/R 6'2" 190lbs 12/18/93 (Ryan)
23Niko Goodrum S/R 6'3" 198lbs 2/28/92 (Smith)
8Zack Granite L/L 6'1" 175lbs 9/17/92 (Ryan)
26Max Kepler L/L 6'4" 205lbs 2/10/93 (Smith)
20Eddie Rosario L/R 6'1" 180lbs 9/28/91 (Smith)
19Kennys Vargas S/R 6'5" 290lbs 8/1/90 (Smith)

 

Pitchers 26.Signed by:

Ryan 10, Falvey 4, Antony 1, Smith 1

 

Position players 14. Signed by:

Smith 7, Ryan 5, Falvey 2

 

Total: Ryan 15, Falvey 9, Smith 8, Antony 1.

 

Ryan signed 37.5% of today's Twins, mostly pitchers (which of course is not "the majority or the Twins' roster".)Smith signed half of today's Twins' position players and should be credited for the Twins' strong young core.Other than Berrios, none of Ryan's pitchers seem to be high impact pitchers for the Twins.Same with Smith's...

 

Facts.

Edited by Thrylos, 04 September 2017 - 03:52 PM.

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#9 dbminn

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 03:58 PM

Ryan and staff (Smith) did their part for the current team. A very young, solid core that will compete until 2020. Glad it's in the hands of others (Falvey, et al) to take them the rest of the way. 

Edited by dbminn, 04 September 2017 - 03:59 PM.

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#10 puckstopper1

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 05:33 PM

 

This is kind of an interested statement, so here is the Twins active roster (signed by GM in parenthesis) :

 

9Matt Belisle R/R 6'3" 230lbs 6/6/80(Falvey)
17Jose Berrios R/R 6'0" 185lbs 5/27/94 (Ryan)
62Buddy Boshers L/L 6'3" 205lbs 5/9/88 (Ryan)
67Alan Busenitz R/R 6'1" 180lbs 8/22/90 (Antony)
40Bartolo Colon R/R 5'11" 285lbs 5/24/73(Falvey)
27John Curtiss R/R 6'4" 200lbs 4/5/93 (Ryan)
56Tyler Duffey R/R 6'3" 220lbs 12/27/90 (Ryan)
35Dillon Gee R/R 6'1" 205lbs 4/28/86(Falvey)
44Kyle Gibson R/R 6'6" 215lbs 10/23/87 (Smith)
39Trevor Hildenberger R/R 6'2" 211lbs 12/15/90 (Ryan)
15Glen Perkins L/L 6'0" 205lbs 3/2/83 (Ryan)
57Ryan Pressly R/R 6'3" 210lbs 12/15/88 (Ryan)
55Taylor Rogers L/L 6'3" 170lbs 12/17/90 (Ryan)
54Ervin Santana R/R 6'2" 175lbs 12/12/82 (Ryan)
—Aaron Slegers R/R 6'10" 245lbs 9/4/92 (Ryan)
66Nik Turley L/L 6'4" 195lbs 9/11/89(Falvey)
21Jason Castro L/R 6'3" 215lbs 6/18/87(Falvey)
38Chris Gimenez R/R 6'2" 230lbs 12/27/82(Falvey)
16Ehire Adrianza S/R 6'1" 170lbs 8/21/89(Falvey)
2Brian Dozier R/R 5'11" 200lbs 5/15/87 (Smith)
5Eduardo Escobar S/R 5'10" 185lbs 1/5/89 (Ryan)
22 Miguel Sano R/R 6'4" 260lbs5/11/93 (Smith)
43Mitch Garver R/R 6'1" 220lbs 1/15/91 (Ryan)
7Joe Mauer L/R 6'5" 225lbs 4/19/83 (Ryan)
11Jorge Polanco S/R 5'11" 200lbs 7/5/93 (Smith)
25Byron Buxton R/R 6'2" 190lbs 12/18/93 (Ryan)
23Niko Goodrum S/R 6'3" 198lbs 2/28/92 (Smith)
8Zack Granite L/L 6'1" 175lbs 9/17/92 (Ryan)
26Max Kepler L/L 6'4" 205lbs 2/10/93 (Smith)
20Eddie Rosario L/R 6'1" 180lbs 9/28/91 (Smith)
19Kennys Vargas S/R 6'5" 290lbs 8/1/90 (Smith)

 

Pitchers 26.Signed by:

Ryan 10, Falvey 4, Antony 1, Smith 1

 

Position players 14. Signed by:

Smith 7, Ryan 5, Falvey 2

 

Total: Ryan 15, Falvey 9, Smith 8, Antony 1.

 

Ryan signed 37.5% of today's Twins, mostly pitchers (which of course is not "the majority or the Twins' roster".)Smith signed half of today's Twins' position players and should be credited for the Twins' strong young core.Other than Berrios, none of Ryan's pitchers seem to be high impact pitchers for the Twins.Same with Smith's...

 

Facts.

Thanks for the details Thrylos!  I guess the thanks should have gone to Smith and Ryan.  Both of whom were greatly grilled on this site (like my burgers and brats).  I knew this post would stir some debate.  

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#11 puckstopper1

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 05:34 PM

 

Ryan and staff (Smith) did their part for the current team. A very young, solid core that will compete until 2020. Glad it's in the hands of others (Falvey, et al) to take them the rest of the way. 

 

Agreed!

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#12 drjim

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 07:10 PM

The way I think about it is that it was time for Ryan to go. But for all his faults, he left the organization in decent shape and in position to make a leap.

Much of immediate work post 2011 was rebuilding an organization that had collapsed. That work was done. Now the work of Falvey/Levine is to take a solid foundation and upgrade the processes that had become obsolete. That strikes me as easier work.
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#13 Riverbrian

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 07:41 PM

I have no problem saying "Thank You" to Terry Ryan and being sincere. 

 

The guy was one of us. 

 

He woke up in the morning and went to work on our behalf. 

 

I believed it was time for a change but that doesn't mean he should be burned at the stake. 

 

The guy was one of us. 

 

 

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#14 Darius

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:43 AM

Bill Smith signed Sano, Kepler, and Polanco in the same international signing period.

He made some other questionable decisions for sure, but if anyone deserves a retroactive thank you, it should probably be him.

Ryan had so many chances in the 00s to really solidify the team and make a championship run. He never did that. Whether it was his doing, or ownerships, we'll never know.

But, either way, I still think Ryan did a poor job. They were one of the worst franchises in professional sports in terms of success over his 25 year tenure. He chose Mauer for the wrong reasons and it just happened to work out for him. He stumbled into Johan, then they bundled the trade to the Mets. He redused to adapt and use technology and advanced stats, which shows extremely poor vision and leadership. In terms of analysis, this franchise was in the '80s while nearly every one else was in 2000s. The place turned into a country club, where he and his buddies just hung around and compiled 90 loss season after 90 loss season with no repercussions to staff.

He did make some good moves (Pierzynski, Stewart trades), and I'm sure if you ask the Pohlad's he did all that was asked if him (made tons of $$$), but for the life of me I cant figure out why he is so highly regarded in MN as a great baseball guy. The team won two World Series in five years, then he proceeded to run it into the ground, to the tune of being a laughing stock right up there with the Royals and the Pirates.

#15 zenser

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:52 AM

 

I have no problem saying "Thank You" to Terry Ryan and being sincere. 

 

The guy was one of us. 

 

He woke up in the morning and went to work on our behalf. 

 

I believed it was time for a change but that doesn't mean he should be burned at the stake. 

 

The guy was one of us. 

I had a chance to meet MacPhail the weekend of his Twins HOF induction.I had so many questions I wanted to ask but the only thing I said was "Thank you making two of the greatest memories of my childhood."I think I caught him a little off guard.Ryan gets beat up here and I have thrown a few punches myself but he did do some good during his tenure here.

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#16 Darius

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:53 AM

The way I think about it is that it was time for Ryan to go. But for all his faults, he left the organization in decent shape and in position to make a leap.

Much of immediate work post 2011 was rebuilding an organization that had collapsed. That work was done. Now the work of Falvey/Levine is to take a solid foundation and upgrade the processes that had become obsolete. That strikes me as easier work.


I partially and respectfully disagree about being in good shape because of him.

Pitching throughout the organization is horrendous. Many high draft picks were blown on college relievers who are flaming out.

Bill Smith was responsible for Sano (who Ryan tried inexplicably moving to the OF to keep Plouffe in the lineup), Polanco (who inexplicably had his options burned early to sit on the bench), and Kepler on offense. Selecting Buxton was an absolute no-brainer. I don't really see many saavy moves from him on that side that of the ball either. He just stumbled into some great prospects.

It shouldn't be difficult to gsther a stacked group of youngsters when the major league team picks in the top 5 year after year.

He shouldnt have made it as long as he did. Nearly any other serious baseball market shows him the door in the late 90s, if he's lucky sometime in the 00s after all of the terrible playoff losses.
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#17 birdwatcher

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:35 AM

 

 

 

Terry Ryan told us the Twins could not compete due to increasing player salaries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We never heard Ryan say the Twins could not compete. We heard him say, actually on fairly rare occasions when you really think about it, that they had certain financial limitations when asked.

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#18 birdwatcher

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:39 AM

 

This is kind of an interested statement, so here is the Twins active roster (signed by GM in parenthesis) :

 

9Matt Belisle R/R 6'3" 230lbs 6/6/80(Falvey)
17Jose Berrios R/R 6'0" 185lbs 5/27/94 (Ryan)
62Buddy Boshers L/L 6'3" 205lbs 5/9/88 (Ryan)
67Alan Busenitz R/R 6'1" 180lbs 8/22/90 (Antony)
40Bartolo Colon R/R 5'11" 285lbs 5/24/73(Falvey)
27John Curtiss R/R 6'4" 200lbs 4/5/93 (Ryan)
56Tyler Duffey R/R 6'3" 220lbs 12/27/90 (Ryan)
35Dillon Gee R/R 6'1" 205lbs 4/28/86(Falvey)
44Kyle Gibson R/R 6'6" 215lbs 10/23/87 (Smith)
39Trevor Hildenberger R/R 6'2" 211lbs 12/15/90 (Ryan)
15Glen Perkins L/L 6'0" 205lbs 3/2/83 (Ryan)
57Ryan Pressly R/R 6'3" 210lbs 12/15/88 (Ryan)
55Taylor Rogers L/L 6'3" 170lbs 12/17/90 (Ryan)
54Ervin Santana R/R 6'2" 175lbs 12/12/82 (Ryan)
—Aaron Slegers R/R 6'10" 245lbs 9/4/92 (Ryan)
66Nik Turley L/L 6'4" 195lbs 9/11/89(Falvey)
21Jason Castro L/R 6'3" 215lbs 6/18/87(Falvey)
38Chris Gimenez R/R 6'2" 230lbs 12/27/82(Falvey)
16Ehire Adrianza S/R 6'1" 170lbs 8/21/89(Falvey)
2Brian Dozier R/R 5'11" 200lbs 5/15/87 (Smith)
5Eduardo Escobar S/R 5'10" 185lbs 1/5/89 (Ryan)
22 Miguel Sano R/R 6'4" 260lbs5/11/93 (Smith)
43Mitch Garver R/R 6'1" 220lbs 1/15/91 (Ryan)
7Joe Mauer L/R 6'5" 225lbs 4/19/83 (Ryan)
11Jorge Polanco S/R 5'11" 200lbs 7/5/93 (Smith)
25Byron Buxton R/R 6'2" 190lbs 12/18/93 (Ryan)
23Niko Goodrum S/R 6'3" 198lbs 2/28/92 (Smith)
8Zack Granite L/L 6'1" 175lbs 9/17/92 (Ryan)
26Max Kepler L/L 6'4" 205lbs 2/10/93 (Smith)
20Eddie Rosario L/R 6'1" 180lbs 9/28/91 (Smith)
19Kennys Vargas S/R 6'5" 290lbs 8/1/90 (Smith)

 

Pitchers 26.Signed by:

Ryan 10, Falvey 4, Antony 1, Smith 1

 

Position players 14. Signed by:

Smith 7, Ryan 5, Falvey 2

 

Total: Ryan 15, Falvey 9, Smith 8, Antony 1.

 

Ryan signed 37.5% of today's Twins, mostly pitchers (which of course is not "the majority or the Twins' roster".)Smith signed half of today's Twins' position players and should be credited for the Twins' strong young core.Other than Berrios, none of Ryan's pitchers seem to be high impact pitchers for the Twins.Same with Smith's...

 

Facts.

 

Facts, perhaps, but let's be careful about what conclusions we draw. Once again, we're drawn into a useless discussion about attributiong credit and blame to a single person in a 60-person department where many significant contributors get zero credit from many of you and where most of them, and their accomplishments, are virtually unknown. The common retort, "yeah, but the buck stops" ...is hollow.

 

Ryan deserves more credit, and less criticism, IMO, than this board gives him in general, despite his weaknesses and despite his inevitable and not so inevitable mistakes.  The organization that was in place when he left, from a personnel standpoint, is intact. Let's give those people credit, and give Falvey credit for the actual changes he's making. There's plenty of room for us to credit both GM's, and a whole unexplored territory for giving credit downstream where much of it is deserved.

Edited by birdwatcher, 05 September 2017 - 11:09 AM.

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#19 birdwatcher

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:06 AM

 

Bill Smith signed Sano, Kepler, and Polanco in the same international signing period.

 

Once and for all, can we please start giving credit to the right people? Smith didn't know anything about these guys until the scouts came to him with a figure. Smith wasn't even the most influential voice in the room when the group decision was made to open the wallet for Sano's people. Smith has said as much.

 

Let's learn a little more about what guys like Fred Guerrero and Howard Norsetter do all year every year before we  perpetuate this myth about Smith. At least Ryan knew the names of all the people in scouting and development, had many one-on-one meetings with every one of them, and had the respect as a baseball man of the whole lot of them, most of whom he hired.

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#20 drjim

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:24 AM

 

I partially and respectfully disagree about being in good shape because of him.

Pitching throughout the organization is horrendous. Many high draft picks were blown on college relievers who are flaming out.

Bill Smith was responsible for Sano (who Ryan tried inexplicably moving to the OF to keep Plouffe in the lineup), Polanco (who inexplicably had his options burned early to sit on the bench), and Kepler on offense. Selecting Buxton was an absolute no-brainer. I don't really see many saavy moves from him on that side that of the ball either. He just stumbled into some great prospects.

It shouldn't be difficult to gsther a stacked group of youngsters when the major league team picks in the top 5 year after year.

He shouldnt have made it as long as he did. Nearly any other serious baseball market shows him the door in the late 90s, if he's lucky sometime in the 00s after all of the terrible playoff losses.

 

This is not an accurate way of thinking of Polanco's options. The blunder with him was calling him up too early to full season ball which prevented the chance for a fourth option year. This was not Ryan's decision.

 

Pitching is an obvious problem, but there was some young guys breaking in this year and some more that will be ready. Really rebuilding pitching takes 5-6 years, which is about exactly the timetable of when Ryan replaced Smith. We are going to start seeing the fruits of that labor.

 

I agree on Sano. (Even though I fully supported the idea of trying him in RF, it should not have been above Sano when hall of famers of similar ilk Cabrera and Pujols pulled it off).

 

I don't think taking Buxton should be dismissed as a "no brainer". Ryan could have easily selected a college arm over Buxton, many people advocated for such a move. I don't agree with criticizing bad moves and not giving credit for good moves.

 

And if it is so easy to gather such stacked teams, more teams would pull it off. Houston and the Cubs have done a great job, but they are not the norm. Teams have been mired in mediocrity for years. Rebuilds are not easy.

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