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Mandelaro: Twins to stay in Rochester for 2 more years

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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:21 AM

https://twitter.com/...463302052560896

According to a Tweet from Rochester Democrat & Chronicle writer Jim Mandelaro indicates that the Twins and Red Wings will announce that they will continue their working relationship for two more years.

#2 SirLoin

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:37 AM

Mandelaro must be disappointed considering his blog comments a few weeks ago about how the Twins lack committment to winning baseball in Rochester by calling up all their top players.

#3 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:39 AM

I think Mandelaro has just been frustrated with having to follow a terrible team the last two years (which I'm sure the Twins beat writers can relate to at this point). His stance has softened as the Wings worked their way in to wild card contention this month.

In the end, I think this is a wise move for both organizations. This relationship may not be terrific at this point, but there was no assurance either the Wings or Twins were going to end up with a better situation elsewhere and real risks for each that they could end up much worse off.
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#4 John Bonnes

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:55 AM

So can we call up Hendriks, Parmelee and Vasquez now? Please?

#5 Mr. Ed

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:02 AM

Twins have made an effort to make Roch better. Glynn, Bruno and Cuellar have done a pretty good job making chicken salad out of this, having them in playoff contention.

SOME talent coming thru the org. Should get better at least offensively next 2 years.

Pitching? Anyone's guess. Pedro Hernandez has had a couple good outings in a row, Esmerling Vasquez now flourishing as a starter. Hendriks does well at AAA

Cuellar is a guy I've felt should be given a shot at ML pitching coach. Not sure why that's never happened.

#6 Mr. Ed

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:03 AM

So can we call up Hendriks, Parmelee and Vasquez now? Please?


Pedro Hernandez, too. Might be the next Scott Diamond :)

#7 Seth Stohs

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:05 AM

So can we call up Hendriks, Parmelee and Vasquez now? Please?


No. The Red Wings are trying to get to the playoffs. Same reason we can't call up Arcia or Hicks now either.

#8 Mr. Ed

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:10 AM

Vasquez will have to take someone's spot on the 40 man roster. Could be a tough decision, seeing all the talent that is on this loaded roster. :D

#9 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:10 AM

There is zero reason to start our top prospects "clocks" in a lost season.

I would like to see Hendriks up though, but understand why he isn't.

#10 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:13 AM

So can we call up Hendriks, Parmelee and Vasquez now? Please?


You really DO want to see Mandelaro's head explode, don't you, John? :)

I'd like to see those guys get a call up sooner rather than later, too. At the same time, maybe there's some value in letting them have the experience of a playoff push, even if it's at the AAA level. The Wings are still 3.5 games out of the wild card, so they're probably going to fall short and those players will be available to come up when the regular season ends 9/3 (or sooner if the Wings are mathematically eliminated a couple days earlier).
[COLOR=#0000cd]I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at[/COLOR][COLOR=#800000] Knuckleballsblog.com[/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd] while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for [/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd][COLOR=#800000]MetroSportsReport.com[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd].[/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000cd]
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#11 Mr. Ed

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:18 AM

18 games left

Call up

Parmelee
Hendriks
Vasquez
Hernandez
Escobar
Dozier

and from AA

Hicks
Arcia

#12 John Bonnes

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:22 AM

So can we call up Hendriks, Parmelee and Vasquez now? Please?


You really DO want to see Mandelaro's head explode, don't you, John? :)

I'd like to see those guys get a call up sooner rather than later, too. At the same time, maybe there's some value in letting them have the experience of a playoff push, even if it's at the AAA level. The Wings are still 3.5 games out of the wild card, so they're probably going to fall short and those players will be available to come up when the regular season ends 9/3 (or sooner if the Wings are mathematically eliminated a couple days earlier).


It also looks like they have a couple of big two game series over the next couple days against the 1st and 2nd place teams. I wouldn't be shocked if early next week some decisions are made.

#13 Thrylos

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:53 AM

I think their move today (to open a roster spot for Carson) will tell a lot about how they feel about their affiliates competing. I see it going 5 ways: Move Capps to the 60 day DL, or DFA one of Nishioka, Manship, Perdomo, Tosoni. I think that the most logical would be to DFA Tosoni (but that would hurt the Rock Cats in their run) Second most logical would be to DFA one of the AAA pitchers (Manship will be out of options next season and there is no way he should be on the 25-man roster) but the most innocuous for the AAA and AA teams would be to move Capps to the 60day DL (but would hurt the slim chances the Twins have to trade him in a waiver trade) or DFA NIshioka (nobody will take him, but I suspect that unless they sell his contract to Japan, they would want to see him again in September)
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#14 nicksaviking

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:58 AM

I'm no minor league expert, but isn't two years kind of a short contract for a minor league affiliate? Does anyone know which other team's AAA affiliates will be free agents in two years? I'm just wondering if either Rochester or the Twins have their sights on a specific team come 2015?

#15 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:02 AM

So can we call up Hendriks, Parmelee and Vasquez now? Please?


No. The Red Wings are trying to get to the playoffs. Same reason we can't call up Arcia or Hicks now either.


This is the reason but its maddening that the Twins are basing THEIR roster off of what is best for ROC/New Brit/
Prob means another yr in AA for Hicks/Arcia....ala Benson/Parm as we will need to sign more Carson/Matt Tolbert types to make Roc happy

#16 Thrylos

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:05 AM

I'm no minor league expert, but isn't two years kind of a short contract for a minor league affiliate? Does anyone know which other team's AAA affiliates will be free agents in two years? I'm just wondering if either Rochester or the Twins have their sights on a specific team come 2015?


Most contracts (Player Development Contracts) with affiliates are either 2 or 4 years. Leases for spring training facilities are a different story. The Twins have a lease of Hammond Stadium and their ST facilities until 2020, but their PDC with Fort Myers Miracle expires this fall I think (but they will renew it if they have not done so).
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#17 Thrylos

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:09 AM

Mandelaro has been twitting about "how angry" the natives are because they extended the PDC. Some of us Twins' fans are pretty upset too, because they (including the press and Mandelaro) never embraced the Twins as a franchise, and I don't think they deserve the Twins. Every other town that the Twins have affiliations with (including New Britain which is deep in Red Sox, Yankee, Met territory) is positively thinking of the Twins and their local papers even have Minnesota Twins coverage. Not Rochester. I think that the Twins made a mistake here. Maybe more agreements would be expiring in 2 years so the field would be better. Could be a tactical move because of this.
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#18 righty8383

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:11 AM

This is the reason but its maddening that the Twins are basing THEIR roster off of what is best for ROC/New Brit/
Prob means another yr in AA for Hicks/Arcia....ala Benson/Parm as we will need to sign more Carson/Matt Tolbert types to make Roc happy


Nobody should have a problem with this thinking. If we really NEED these players, then yes, we call them up and the minor league teams/fans will understand. But we don't need them so why not let them stay down and help thier team's playoff push.

#19 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:19 AM

I'm not even sure if teams are allowed under the rule to extend for more than 4 years. Seems like it's always either 2 or 4 and it seems like you see more 4 year deals when affiliates are making their first agreement. Feels like the two organizations have to really feel like they've got a solid fit to extend for 4 years.

I'm an admitted "conspiracy theorist" at heart so I question a lot of things that have no basis for being questioned... that said, shouldn't we wonder why the Twins and Miracle haven't extended yet? I think some of the ownership group of the Miracle are also minority owners of the St. Paul Saints (including actor Bill Murray), but I don't think they have any particular connection to the Twins organization other than sharing a stadium in Ft Myers.

I assume that the Miracle ownership has a separate lease with Lee County for use of Hammond Stadium, rather than being part of the Twins' lease with the county. If that's the case, there's really no reason the Miracle couldn't decide to look in to other affiliations. It might be awkward for the Miracle to affiliate with another MLB team and use Hammond Stadium, but it wouldn't be impossible. Not to mention, there are two other stadiums in Lee County that could be leased to the Miracle, if necessary. Both the Red Sox new JetBlue park and their old ST ballpark, City of Palms Ballpark, would arguably be available.

It just seems odd that, if the ties between the Miracle and Twins are so close, they haven't already formally extended their PDC.
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#20 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:31 AM

This is the reason but its maddening that the Twins are basing THEIR roster off of what is best for ROC/New Brit/
Prob means another yr in AA for Hicks/Arcia....ala Benson/Parm as we will need to sign more Carson/Matt Tolbert types to make Roc happy


Nobody should have a problem with this thinking. If we really NEED these players, then yes, we call them up and the minor league teams/fans will understand. But we don't need them so why not let them stay down and help thier team's playoff push.


It's interesting to see this discussion take place. The fans of MLB teams get upset if decisions are made to placate MiLB affiliates. Fans of MiLB teams get upset if the MLB parent jerks their best players away when the team is winning. I get a feeling that how a person feels about this issue largely depends on whether you're part of a community with an affiliated minor league team.

In truth, the two organizations need one another. Without affiliates, the MLB organization would have to own and manage all of their own minor league teams. Some MLB teams are moving toward this model, but it's not without risks. Without a MLB affiliate, minor league organizations would have to incur payroll costs for players and other field personnel. That would make even breaking even financially almost impossible for most MiLB teams.

So yes, the Twins do need to at least consider the effect of late season player moves on their affiliates that are contending for playoff spots. It's not the prevailing factor, but it's a factor. I don't think that's unreasonable when you're talking about a difference of a few days' time one place or another. Then again, I'm a minor league fan.
[COLOR=#0000cd]I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at[/COLOR][COLOR=#800000] Knuckleballsblog.com[/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd] while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for [/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd][COLOR=#800000]MetroSportsReport.com[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd].[/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000cd]
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#21 Thrylos

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:53 AM

So yes, the Twins do need to at least consider the effect of late season player moves on their affiliates that are contending for playoff spots. It's not the prevailing factor, but it's a factor. I don't think that's unreasonable when you're talking about a difference of a few days' time one place or another. Then again, I'm a minor league fan.


Agreed, with one exception:

When the MLB team is contending, it should have the best talent up there to help them win. Putting MiLB affiliates feeling over winning at the MLB-level is nutty IMHO. Other than that, Hicks and Arcia and Parmelee can wait a week or 2 more in a non-contending season.
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#22 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:40 AM

Agreed, with one exception:

When the MLB team is contending, it should have the best talent up there to help them win. Putting MiLB affiliates feeling over winning at the MLB-level is nutty IMHO. Other than that, Hicks and Arcia and Parmelee can wait a week or 2 more in a non-contending season.


Obviously, yes.

We can only hope that becomes the primary consideration again one of these years.
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#23 Thrylos

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:54 PM

Here is the official press coverage at the Red Wings' minor league site.

Ryan is such a politician. Here is part of what he said to the public:

"The Red Wings organization and the City of Rochester have been very good to us and this is the place we want to be," said Twins General Manager Terry Ryan. "Ownership, the front-office staff, and, of course, the fans have always made us feel very special and welcome in Rochester."


that's right...

Here is some insight about how the fans of Rochester really feel and about how welcome the Twins really are
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#24 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:10 PM

You can't really put a lot of credence in to what a few blowhard fans in Rochester say. Of course they don't want the Twins after the past couple of seasons' lousy teams. But then you ask who they DO want and the same idiots would have no clue what the choices were. Every AAA fanbase wants the Yankees or Red Sox but they can't have 10 AAA affiliates each. If you sat one of these idiots down and made them see what the Rochester choices effective are... Mets (maybe) or Twins... and showed them what the various Mets AAA locations had experienced over the past 10 years... they'd know they had to re-up with the Twins. Mandelaro, once he looked at the same information, came to that exact conclusion. He's right though, if the Twins had continued down the path they were going a month or two ago and had ended up with a third straight 90-loss season, the preferred choice probably would have been to take their chances with the Mets... and I wouldn't have argued that they made the wrong choice.

A certain vocal segment of any team's fanbase is always going to loudly proclaim that the people running the team always make the wrong decision... as we well know in Twinsville.

Edited by Jim Crikket, 17 August 2012 - 04:13 PM.

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#25 drivlikejehu

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:11 PM

I couldn't care less about Rochester or its AAA team. So long as the Twins' AAA affiliate isn't an extreme run environment like Las Vegas, then I don't see what difference it makes to Twins fans. I grew up in a AAA town, it's fun to go watch a game, but the standings at the end of the year just don't matter. Anyone pretending otherwise is just embarrassing himself.

#26 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:16 PM

I couldn't care less about Rochester or its AAA team. So long as the Twins' AAA affiliate isn't an extreme run environment like Las Vegas, then I don't see what difference it makes to Twins fans. I grew up in a AAA town, it's fun to go watch a game, but the standings at the end of the year just don't matter. Anyone pretending otherwise is just embarrassing himself.


Because those standings didn't matter to YOU, they also don't matter to anyone else? Thanks... now we know that the rest of us can just not bother forming an opinion.

I happen to know plenty of fans of minor league teams that DO feel their local team's record and place in the standings matters to them and I think it's pretty arrogant to say those people are embarrassing themselves for feeling that way.
[COLOR=#0000cd]I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at[/COLOR][COLOR=#800000] Knuckleballsblog.com[/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd] while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for [/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd][COLOR=#800000]MetroSportsReport.com[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd].[/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000cd]
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#27 BD57

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:29 PM

[quote name='greengoblinrulz'][quote name='Seth Stohs'][quote name='John Bonnes']So can we call up Hendriks, Parmelee and Vasquez now? Please?[/QUOTE]

No. The Red Wings are trying to get to the playoffs. Same reason we can't call up Arcia or Hicks now either.[/QUOTE]

This is the reason but its maddening that the Twins are basing THEIR roster off of what is best for ROC/New Brit/
Prob means another yr in AA for Hicks/Arcia....ala Benson/Parm as we will need to sign more Carson/Matt Tolbert types to make Roc happy[/QUOTE]

Seriously?

This Twins team is going NOWHERE. Gutting an affiliate that's in a playoff race? Might as well tell them you don't give a darn about their organization, fans, etc. It doesn't work that way.

I'd rather our guys play in a pennant race - even if it's a minor league pennant race - than come up to play out the string here. Don't want to start the clock running on anyone unnecessarily, would rather have a Chris Parmalee get a chance to carry a team into the playoffs.

Success breeds success at the next level. We could use some of that.

#28 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:51 PM

Mandelaro has been twitting about "how angry" the natives are because they extended the PDC. Some of us Twins' fans are pretty upset too, because they (including the press and Mandelaro) never embraced the Twins as a franchise, and I don't think they deserve the Twins. Every other town that the Twins have affiliations with (including New Britain which is deep in Red Sox, Yankee, Met territory) is positively thinking of the Twins and their local papers even have Minnesota Twins coverage. Not Rochester. I think that the Twins made a mistake here. Maybe more agreements would be expiring in 2 years so the field would be better. Could be a tactical move because of this.


I hear what you're saying. When I was perusing the Red Wings souvenir program, I was struck by how much was devoted to their link with the Yankees this season and celebrating their ties to the Yankees in the past. I had to double check the front of the program to make sure this was actually a Twins affiliate.:)

#29 Jim Crikket

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:54 PM

I get the feeling that the Rochester organization was really surprised by how few people showed up for S/W-B Yankees "home" games in Frontier Field. I think they drew about half of what they saw for Red Wings games. I'm actually kind of glad it went that way. It says the local fan base is more committed to the Red Wings as "their" team, regardless of affiliation. I also wonder if that didn't send a message to the Rochester decision-makers that a more local affiliation isn't as important as some of them thought it might be. Thus just one more reason not to take a risk on the Mets next year.
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#30 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:51 AM

I couldn't care less about Rochester or its AAA team. So long as the Twins' AAA affiliate isn't an extreme run environment like Las Vegas, then I don't see what difference it makes to Twins fans. I grew up in a AAA town, it's fun to go watch a game, but the standings at the end of the year just don't matter. Anyone pretending otherwise is just embarrassing himself.


They matter very much to the people who own those teams and who are trying to put people in the seats so they can earn a living. Personally, it matters little to me what teams we end up affiliated with, but I've talked with a minor league club owner and they really are at the mercy of the parent club as to what quality product they put on the field. It's hard to run a business that way.