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The short leash and rookies

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#21 drjim

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:45 AM

He's a slopballinhlg lefty who was in a massive jam going through the order a second time. What result would you expect keeping him in?

Enns may make it as a reliever, but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see him again in a Twins uniform. There's a reason he was the marginal 40 guy thrown into the trade.
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#22 goulik

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:45 AM

I will let drjim speak for himself, but his determination is not final either. It's probably based on the fact that Enns is a lightly regarded 26 year old making his MLB debut. Not every player deserves equal leash in their MLB debut, or any game for that matter.


I can agree with this. It's just that it seems to be more of a pattern than merely situational but I'm just a guy sitting behind a screen judging from afar

#23 amjgt

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:46 AM

Bases loaded, the command and control pitcher can't find the strike zone and you want to win the game. The short leash was created by the pitcher. Gibson has been pulled early multiple times. How many of the call ups this year did the game get away? Enough that the Twins are not in first place.

The bases loaded walk was like a 9-pitch walk

#24 wsnydes

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:54 AM

 

I will let drjim speak for himself, but his determination is not final either. It's probably based on the fact that Enns is a lightly regarded 26 year old making his MLB debut. Not every player deserves equal leash in their MLB debut, or any game for that matter.

I don't disagree with any of this.  I was simply asking how a determination on his viability as a MLB pitcher could be made so quickly.  That is all.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I didn't even question the hook in my initial post, nor am I questioning it now.  I'm far from convinced he'll be any good, but I can't make that determination after 50 pitches.  My question didn't even really have anything to do with the game.  How we got to this line of thinking, I have no idea.

 

I would have preferred to see what the kid had in that jam, but I understand why he was pulled and I'm not grumbling at all about it.  Strategy-wise, it was probably the right move in order to win the game.

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#25 Vanimal46

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:58 AM

On a macro-level, Molitor has improved this season giving rookies a longer leash. Specifically Polanco, whom he let him play out of a horrific slump. He's still a little hesitant about rookie pitchers, but not nearly as bad as last season when he toyed with Meyer and others. 

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#26 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:59 AM

An individual decision can still be good, and also be part of a bad pattern/process. I don't know if this is or not, frankly. I think it's a harder call to make than it might seem. 

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#27 wsnydes

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:00 AM

 

On a macro-level, Molitor has improved this season giving rookies a longer leash. Specifically Polanco, whom he let him play out of a horrific slump. He's still a little hesitant about rookie pitchers, but not nearly as bad as last season when he toyed with Meyer and others. 

I agree, but with what he did to Meyer there is only one direction to go at that point.

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#28 drjim

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:02 AM

On a macro-level, Molitor has improved this season giving rookies a longer leash. Specifically Polanco, whom he let him play out of a horrific slump. He's still a little hesitant about rookie pitchers, but not nearly as bad as last season when he toyed with Meyer and others.


What does this even mean?

Do people think mlb teams handle pitchers making their debuts differently? Or that rookies should get some extra leash?

I really don't understand the attitude that when a young player doesn't come up and rip the majors right away he is being handled poorly. MLB baseball.is tough!
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#29 Vanimal46

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:07 AM

 

What does this even mean?

Do people think mlb teams handle pitchers making their debuts differently? Or that rookies should get some extra leash?

I really don't understand the attitude that when a young player doesn't come up and rip the majors right away he is being handled poorly. MLB baseball.is tough!

 

In this specific instance with Enns, I don't have a problem with letting him off the hook early for his MLB debut. 

This season Molitor is giving rookie pitchers more of an opportunity to sink or swim compared to last year. Hildenberger for example is proving his case to be considered more often out of the pen. However, Molitor still prefers to use the same guys (Rogers, Belisle, Kintzler while he was here) more often than not. 

 

All I'm saying is he's improved from last year when, for example, Alex Meyer would get a quick hook after 3 innings, and not pitch again for a while. 


#30 drjim

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:09 AM

In this specific instance with Enns, I don't have a problem with letting him off the hook early for his MLB debut.

This season Molitor is giving rookie pitchers more of an opportunity to sink or swim compared to last year. Hildenberger for example is proving his case to be considered more often out of the pen. However, Molitor still prefers to use the same guys (Rogers, Belisle, Kintzler while he was here) more often than not.

All I'm saying is he's improved from last year when, for example, Alex Meyer would get a quick hook after 3 innings, and not pitch again for a while.


Well earned by Meyer last year.
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#31 spycake

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:10 AM

I agree, but with what he did to Meyer there is only one direction to go at that point.


The Meyer issue was burying him in the pen, and then sending him to AAA immediately after his one start, much more than it was the quick hook in one start. Meyer threw a lot of pitches that inning.

Edited by spycake, 11 August 2017 - 08:13 AM.

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#32 wsnydes

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:10 AM

 

What does this even mean?

Do people think mlb teams handle pitchers making their debuts differently? Or that rookies should get some extra leash?

I really don't understand the attitude that when a young player doesn't come up and rip the majors right away he is being handled poorly. MLB baseball.is tough!

I'm not looking for rookies to get extra leash, just the same leash.  There is something to be learned by both player and manager from allowing a guy to work through situations.  I wish that Molitor would allow that process to happen more often.

 

I'll reiterate that the leash on Enns was too short for my preference, but I understand the why so I'm not making a big deal of it.  I'm not questioning that at all.

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#33 Seth Stohs

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:11 AM

 

I have been having a REAL hard time with Molitors short leash on rookie pitchers. When I heard Enns was getting the call I wondered if he would get 3 innings in. We saw this with Mejia (and others) but I just don't believe a rookie should be pulled after giving up 2 runs in their first MLB game. this more than anything else he does makes me question Molitor. Explain to me why I'm wrong...

I haven't read down further here, so maybe this has been clarified, but I have to ask if you watched the game, and specifically the 3rd inning. As I watched it, I had no problem with Molitor taking him out there.

 

I also was thinking that, yes, Ervin Santana, Colon, and even Berrios would likely have been allowed to work through it. I'd guess even Mejia would have been given another batter or two. 

 

But it seemed like the right move at that time. 


#34 goulik

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:12 AM

Typically, you just don't see starting pitchers pulled after allowing only 2 runs rookies or veterans. Maybe this is a new direction in baseball overall with starting pitchers not going as deep or throwing as many pitches as they did 20-30 years ago. It's not that I think rookies should have extra leash, it probably needs to be shorter than for veterans, I just believe in letting starters work through problems. Maybe sometimes the writing is on the wall after only 2 runs have scored as it seems it may have been last night.

#35 bighat

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:17 AM

I agree with Enns getting the hook. Glad Molitor did that and glad the Twins won the game. On to Detroit.

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#36 VirginSturgeon

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:30 AM

There is no way Enns should have been allowed to face another batter in that situation. What if he give up a grand slam to the next batter and the game is tied? All the momentum is gone and who knows how the game ends up. The bullpen was rested and ready to give 6+ plus innings of relief. We are all about winning ballgames right now! He can have another start in 5 days to evaluate again. Molitor seems to have a good feel for the team right now so I have condfidence in his decision making at this point. Go Twins!
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#37 Doomtints

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:34 AM

 

Biggest problem to the quick hook, in my opinion, is taxing a pen that isn't that good. 

 

Walking in a run is not a "quick hook."

 

Bad bullpen, sure, but worse than what was going on? Not really.

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#38 Han Joelo

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:37 AM

My initial reaction was like the OP.  Upon consideration though, I think Molitor is managing to win.  The Twins are on a nice little streak with some momentum, and giving extra leash to a guy who was part of the trade that waved the white flag would be the ultimate insult to the players trying to win.  The Yankees, also competing and pitching thin, have had plenty of time to evaluate this guy too.  

 

I hope Enns pans out and turns out to be a diamond.  But this was a great time to cash in on a rested bullpen.  Great to see Busenitz defuse that situation.

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#39 USAFChief

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:47 AM

I would have been really, really upset if Molitor hadn't removed Enns at that point.  

 

It was absolutely the right decision.  

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#40 birdwatcher

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:55 AM

If I think back at all the eyebrow-raising moves Molitor has made so far this season, this one doesn't rank in the top 113.

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