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Article: Can The Twins Win With Dozier And Mauer?

brian dozier joe mauer
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#21 Blackjack

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 06:47 AM

The short answer to the original question is yes, the Twins can win with Mauer and Dozier. They just need all the other young players - Sano, Buxton, Kepler, etc. to step up to the next level. But isn't that the way most teams get better?? The young players need to step up.You can't afford enough free agents to fill all the holes. 

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#22 Blackjack

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 06:55 AM

The sad part of this is that as others have pointed out, Mauer and Dozier are only league average players at their positions but aside from Sano they are still better than anything else the Twins have on the roster.

 

Dozier needs to go this winter to clear the middle infielder logjam. I'd rather see what Gordon and Polanco can become rather than trade one of them and keep Dozier for one more year.

 

Mauer is a different story. The Twins at this point have no one better than him to play first. Maybe Sano but then who plays third?

 

The really interesting future byline concerning Mauer is what happens after 2018?? Does he retire or sign with the Twins for a reduced salary and reduced role?? With the hope that the young core takes him to the World Series?? Would the Twins want him back at a reduced salary?


#23 Bill Brown69

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:28 AM

Yes they can, but it is time to quit making the lineup based on their preferences and give them the rest of this season to get used to new roles. This lineup has one big bopper and then a bunch of walks with a black hole when it comes to runners on base.

 

Buxton- see if he can do it for next year.

Kepler- Left handed, takes a few pitches. Let Buck steal if he is on and if he isn't get yourself to 2nd.

Sano- our big masher

Mauer- pitch around Sano and you might walk Mauer also.

Dozier- if he can't get used to it then,,,,,,,,,,,

Rosario

Grossman

Castro- hopefully he doesn't slow up Buxton too often

Polanco

 

I would like to see them give that lineup 30 games to see what happens. In the offseason send Grossman to Tom Kelly to learn 1st base and get a 'real" DH to bat in the middle.

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#24 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:39 AM

Can they? Sure.

 

But that's not the same question as: are these guys GOOD or better compared to other players at their position. To say "they aren't the main problem" is NOT the same "are they good".

 

Mauer is closer to the worst 1B in baseball (by WAR) than a top 5 1B. He's 18th in FWAR. He might accumulate 1.5 WAR if he's lucky the rest of the way. He's just not that good anymore. It's a bummer, because when he was "Mauer", he was one of the best pure hitters we've seen. But he's not that guy anymore at all.

 

Dozier is better compared to other 2B than Mauer is to 1B, but not a by a ton. He's going to accumulate around 2 WAR, which is fine, but not exactly good. They'd be lucky to get a top 30 prospect for him at this point or even a top 100 one.

 

In other words, they might not be the biggest issues, but they aren't exactly going to carry this team either. They are mediocre players, likely nearing the end of their careers. 

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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#25 markos

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:48 AM

The Twins can win with Dozier and Mauer when the team has improved enough that they are two of the three worse everyday players rather than two of the three best everyday players.

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#26 Taildragger8791

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:21 AM

So...to sum up the thread: the Twins can win with Mauer and Dozier but not because of Mauer and Dozier. They aren't negatives at their position but they aren't impactful players either.

 

Personally, even if he's not a negative I still think you leave a lot of production on the table by not displacing Mauer (and Grossman for that matter) in the 1B/DH spots. This team is packed to the gills with 50-60 RBI players with mediocre power, Dozier (~80ish) and Sano (>100) being the only exceptions. Guys are generally getting on base but nobody can consistently drive them in.

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#27 Winston Smith

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:39 AM

 

 

 

It's a shame the Pohlads, Ryan and co never actually tried to win a title during Mauer's tenure here.
The guy is easily one of the 5 best players in Franchise History and helped lead the team to several playoff berths. He is a future hall of famer, him not success in the playoffs is a true waste of amazing talent.

I few Dozier is a somewhat similar but not nearly as tragic way.

 

I think they "went" for it in 2010 but of course that was Smith in charge. He also spent like a "drunken sailor"* which got him fired the next year.

 

* compared to Ryan.

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#28 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:08 AM

Mauer and Dozier can be solid complimentary player on a contending team but they just aren't good enough to be lead players on a contending team. I agree with previou sposters ion one sense - the Twins can win with these two players, but they won't win just because of these two players.

 

We really aren't that far away from real contention - only about 3-4 players. The problem is that they are the hardest players to find, We need (1) a middle of the order bat to go with Sano, (2) a true top of the rotation starter and (3) a closer and one other late inning reliever. We could possibly get the first through improvement by one of the OFs, Rosario being the most likely bur Kepler and Buxton have possibilities but none of the 3 are even an even money bet. Frankly we have an open DH spot and should target the  best hitter we can find this winter to hit behind Sano. We will have to go outside the org for a #1 starter.  We don't have that guy in the organization now, at least in the short term. I'm a little more hopeful that we can find a solid late inning BP arm out of Hildenberger, Busenitz and Curtiss to go with Ragers, leaving Duffy and Gee as middle relief/long men, but hoping for two from that group or Perkins returning to form is a fool's errand.

 

Sooo, I think we can truly contend next year if the FO gets us 3 guys - an impact bat, a #1 starter, and a strong late inning RP. We'll never get the starter but we can possibly contend with just the other two and THAT should be doable.   

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#29 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:14 AM

In fairness to the FO, they did try hard to sign a DH this last off season. I didn't love the choice, but they tried. Of course, trying is not the same as succeeding, and it's their job to succeed, not try. But they clearly felt it was an issue that needed addressing, so that indicates a certain knowledge of the team's strengths that should increase our confidence in them some.

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#30 LaBombo

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:19 AM

 

I don't think the Twins tanked after the ASG. I think they simply found the level of their current talent was not competitive with real playoff level baseball. This is not a knock on Falvine. I think they realize it, and I think they intend to do something about it. It might be a very active winter.

 

How did you pack that many excellent insights into five sentences at six in the morning? Was there a whole lot of coffee involved?

Edited by LaBombo, 07 August 2017 - 09:20 AM.

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#31 Thrylos

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:28 AM

Dozier is part of the problem here, since he keeps Escobar on the bench when everyone is healthy.The Twins are a better team with Escobar at second than with Dozier. I know all about "digging the long ball", but Esco is a phenomenal .322/.366/.545 with men on (Dozier's pathetic numbers are up there.)Plus there is a long line of middle infielders waiting in the wings (or the Lookouts for that matter)

 

Dozier is part of the problem here, and if they have the opportunity to move him, they should.If DeLeon was offered 1:1 for him last season, I suspect that they are regretting not pulling the trigger.  

 

Dozier should be upset with himself and his pathetic performance on the batter's box with men on.Big part of the reason the Twins are sellers (and that pitching thing.)

 

Mauer is also sub par as a first baseman, but the Twins do not have better MLB-ready options at this time point, and he is an immovable object, and not only because of his contract.

Edited by Thrylos, 07 August 2017 - 09:30 AM.

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#32 DocBauer

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:56 AM

The short answer to the original question is yes, the Twins can win with Mauer and Dozier. They just need all the other young players - Sano, Buxton, Kepler, etc. to step up to the next level. But isn't that the way most teams get better?? The young players need to step up.You can't afford enough free agents to fill all the holes.


This!

I know people are tired of the argument, but the truth is Kepler, Buxton, Rosario and Polanco are all very talented, still learning, still gaining experience, etc. The oldest of them is 25! Will they all hit their ceilings? That we don't know. But all of these guys posses the potential to hit, run and provide pop/power, just to carrying degrees.

Can this team win with Dozier and Mauer? Absolutely. Mauer is below average offensively, but conversely, compared to what a 2B normally provides offensively, Dozier is above average. Lots of ways to construct a lineup, using what you have properly: less offense at one spot, more at another, etc.

I'm not going to go on and on concerning the pitching staff. Opinions vary somewhat, but we all know the major issues there. But another quality bat to DH, play first with Mauer, etc, would go a long way to improve and deepen the lineup with Sano and the continued growth of the other young position players.
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#33 SwainZag

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:59 AM

 

The short answer to the original question is yes, the Twins can win with Mauer and Dozier. They just need all the other young players - Sano, Buxton, Kepler, etc. to step up to the next level. But isn't that the way most teams get better?? The young players need to step up.You can't afford enough free agents to fill all the holes. 

 

You hit the nail on the head.  This discussion shouldn't be about Mauer and Dozier's shortcomings, it should be about the young players on the team.  While Mauer and Dozier are not world beaters at the moment they are are both better across the board this season than Kepler, Buxton and Polanco whom I think we all expected to take big steps forward this year.  With the continued Mauer/Grossman bashing around here....would it surprise many people to know that they both have higher OPS than Kepler does?

 

 

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#34 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:03 AM

 

You hit the nail on the head.  This discussion shouldn't be about Mauer and Dozier's shortcomings, it should be about the young players on the team.  While Mauer and Dozier are not world beaters at the moment they are are both better across the board this season than Kepler, Buxton and Polanco whom I think we all expected to take big steps forward this year.  With the continued Mauer/Grossman bashing around here....would it surprise many people to know that they both have higher OPS than Kepler does?

 

and? that has what to do with whether or not Mauer/grossman/dozier are good compared to others at their positions, and completely ignores baserunning and fielding?

 

You win by having players that are better than other teams' players, mostly by comparing positions (because players don't play in a vacuum). 

 

Some people seem to be saying, "if everyone else is great, doesn't matter how good or bad Dozier or Mauer are"....when that's just a bad question and answer that doesn't help build a winning team.

Edited by Mike Sixel, 07 August 2017 - 10:04 AM.

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#35 Taildragger8791

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:06 AM

 

You hit the nail on the head.  This discussion shouldn't be about Mauer and Dozier's shortcomings, it should be about the young players on the team.  While Mauer and Dozier are not world beaters at the moment they are are both better across the board this season than Kepler, Buxton and Polanco whom I think we all expected to take big steps forward this year.  With the continued Mauer/Grossman bashing around here....would it surprise many people to know that they both have higher OPS than Kepler does?

 

Mauer/Grossman are playing positions that have much higher offensive expectations. They're also basically at their respective ceilings for production, whereas Kepler is just getting his career started and has a lot of potential growth ahead of him. I don't see the value in this comparison.

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#36 Willihammer

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:28 AM

 

Next year is his last under contract with Minnesota, and given the organization's depth in young middle infielders, it seems unlikely they'll pony up to keep him around.
 

This is a common refrain around here but I'm not sure. Polanco is batting .581. Goodrum and Blankenhorn are organizational filler. You could plan for Gordon in 2019, but who takes over SS?

 

And, if the trade price is low for above average second baseman, so would the FA price, methinks. Keeping Dozier for a few years after he hits FA could easily be the best option organizationally and not that expensive.

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#37 Blackjack

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:30 AM

 

In fairness to the FO, they did try hard to sign a DH this last off season. I didn't love the choice, but they tried. Of course, trying is not the same as succeeding, and it's their job to succeed, not try. But they clearly felt it was an issue that needed addressing, so that indicates a certain knowledge of the team's strengths that should increase our confidence in them some.

Refresh my memory, who did they try to sign?


#38 Taildragger8791

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:32 AM

 

Refresh my memory, who did they try to sign?

 

Wasn't it Napoli?

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#39 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:33 AM

 

Wasn't it Napoli?

 

correct.

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#40 Sconnie

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 10:35 AM

Yes, this team can with with Mauer and Dozier. As Chi pointed out, they're not the issue. If this team had even league average pitching they'd be sitting pretty nicely.

i think the window won't truly open until after JM and BD's contracts expire.

The holes in the pitching staff are too big and too abundant to fill in one offseason. If Falvine had begun filling those holes last offseason, maybe there would be a chance to really compete in 2018.



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