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Gonsalves, Bard promoted

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#21 nicksaviking

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:10 AM

 

I find it odd too, thought for sure he's finish the season at Chattanooga.

I don't think bringing him directly to the Twins right now would exactly be setting him up for success. Don't mind a handful of starts in Septembet if (when) they're out of it.

 

If he's one of those guys who likes to pick at the corners and get swings and misses out of the zone I think he's going to have a tough time at the MLB level regardless of when he is called up, like Berrios last year. I don't think that's a lesson he's going to learn anywhere but at the highest level; if the team is hoping he'll contribute next year, I'd like to see him take his lumps this year and adjust his approach as needed next spring.

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#22 gunnarthor

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:28 AM

Good luck to both of them

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#23 drjim

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:33 AM

 

If he's one of those guys who likes to pick at the corners and get swings and misses out of the zone I think he's going to have a tough time at the MLB level regardless of when he is called up, like Berrios last year. I don't think that's a lesson he's going to learn anywhere but at the highest level; if the team is hoping he'll contribute next year, I'd like to see him take his lumps this year and adjust his approach as needed next spring.

 

He's not like Berrios.

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#24 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:39 AM

I agree the timing is odd, but I'll take any progress I can get.

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#25 spycake

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:48 AM

 

Perhaps the biggest reason was that since the arrival of Littell, Chattanooga had six starters. Someone had to go up. Of most interest was that it was Gonsalves over Jorge, Romero, or Stewart.

Actually Chattanooga has run a 6 man rotation for portions of the season already, which is not uncommon in the minor leagues.  So I don't know if it was that, exactly, although perhaps it could be related. They may want to keep Gonsalves specifically on a 5 man rotation schedule, to get him a few more innings this year and perhaps prime him for a September call-up?


#26 drjim

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:53 AM

 

What good does waiting three weeks do? Honest question. They've done everything but come out publicly and say "the season is done," so I don't understand why they need to wait until they're mathematically eliminated to get guys up. The season is riddled with poor pitching performances so the idea that they're worried about a younger guy having a rough start and wrecking the season after they've already waived the white flag seems odd to me. 

 

Do you honestly think that calling him up now would be setting him up for failure, but in 3 weeks it won't?

 

I wouldn't think it matters a whole lot, I don't expect much from him if he pitches this year. But he is going to have more success this year the less exposure he has and the lighter the lineups in September, and if he can be pulled earlier from games with larger bullpens.

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#27 nicksaviking

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:49 AM

 

He's not like Berrios.

 

He doesn't work on the edges and outside of the zone relying on minor leaguers to chase? His high pitch counts despite the reports of good control would suggest he does.

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#28 drjim

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:55 AM

 

He doesn't work on the edges and outside of the zone relying on minor leaguers to chase? The reports of good control despite his high pitch counts would suggest he does.

 

Sure, but almost any pitcher does that, it's the reason the marginal guys the Twins have called up can dominate AAA but get ripped by big leaguers.. The difference is he doesn't have nearly the stuff Berrios has.

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#29 Vanimal46

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:04 AM

 

Sure, but almost any pitcher does that, it's the reason the marginal guys the Twins have called up can dominate AAA but get ripped by big leaguers.. The difference is he doesn't have nearly the stuff Berrios has.

 

Concur. I don't mind being a little more conservative with Gonsalves' development... Like a fine brisket, low and slow is the way to go. His success is going to come directly from hitting his spots on the corners and command. Berrios could get away with being more "effectively wild" since he has more overpowering stuff. Gonsalves doesn't have that luxury. 


#30 Seth Stohs

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:20 AM

This will be a good challenge for both. 

 

Bard's been terrific this year too. The strikeout rate is phenomenal. Control has already been his thing, so the AAA hitters will test him. 

 

Same as Gonsalves. This will be a good test for him as well. Because he's behind on innings (due to missing 6ish weeks, they could still consider calling him up in 3 weeks and making starts in September. Frankly, they need to use these next three weeks to figure out a plan for Colon and Santiago and Gibson. Is it conceivable they could get a low-level prospect for any of them? Could Gibson continue to be a 5th starter candidate for 2018. That's all for the front office to decide.

 

But Gonsalves can go help the Red Wings try to get to the playoffs. He can learn how to pitch against some older, very experienced hitters. 

 

And in September, he can still become a roster add. Though the front office might try to give September tryouts to some guys that they just want to evaluate briefly in the big leagues and have to make decisions on. They know that Gonsalves is part of the long-term future. 

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#31 SwainZag

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:33 AM

Good for both of them, well deserved promotions and a step closer to being in the big leagues.  I will concur with most of you that it seemed to happen too late, but let's hope for similar results in Rochester.

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#32 nicksaviking

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:33 AM

 

Sure, but almost any pitcher does that, it's the reason the marginal guys the Twins have called up can dominate AAA but get ripped by big leaguers.. The difference is he doesn't have nearly the stuff Berrios has.

 

Clearly he doesn't, which is going to make it even more imperative for him to learn that he has to work in the zone. If he doesn't have the same stuff he'll get no one to chase; major leagurers are going to take, take, take his stuff and he's going to fall behind everyone.

 

Like many young guys, he's likely going to have to learn that lesson the hard way. I'd prefer it be this year instead of next and just like Berrios, it's likely not a lesson that can be learned at AAA.

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#33 DocBauer

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:48 AM

IMO, this has nothing to do with September. At least not directly. Gibson was brought up, Santiago will be up pretty soon in some capacity, and Turley could, and should, be tried in the pen where his stuff...with just a little more control even...could play up.

This is more about, IMO, getting a jump start on the 2018 season by AAA experience. My question is why not 2 or 3 weeks ago for additional AAA Time? Same could be said for Romero and Jorge.

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#34 Ben Noble

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 11:40 AM

Behind Curtiss, Bard has been the (non-injured) reliever that I've been most hoping to see with the Twins this season. Former first round supplemental draft pick, been injured pretty much ever since then, but has put up great K numbers in his second full season back.

 

He's 26 and needs to be protected this year, I want to see how he looks against MLB hitters before that decision has to be made.

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#35 KirbyDome89

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:13 PM

 

I wouldn't think it matters a whole lot, I don't expect much from him if he pitches this year. But he is going to have more success this year the less exposure he has and the lighter the lineups in September, and if he can be pulled earlier from games with larger bullpens.

Fair enough. I guess I see no downside to 2-3 extra starts with the Twins as opposed to Rochester. 


#36 KirbyDome89

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:21 PM

 

This will be a good challenge for both. 

 

Bard's been terrific this year too. The strikeout rate is phenomenal. Control has already been his thing, so the AAA hitters will test him. 

 

Same as Gonsalves. This will be a good test for him as well. Because he's behind on innings (due to missing 6ish weeks, they could still consider calling him up in 3 weeks and making starts in September. Frankly, they need to use these next three weeks to figure out a plan for Colon and Santiago and Gibson. Is it conceivable they could get a low-level prospect for any of them? Could Gibson continue to be a 5th starter candidate for 2018. That's all for the front office to decide.

 

But Gonsalves can go help the Red Wings try to get to the playoffs. He can learn how to pitch against some older, very experienced hitters. 

 

And in September, he can still become a roster add. Though the front office might try to give September tryouts to some guys that they just want to evaluate briefly in the big leagues and have to make decisions on. They know that Gonsalves is part of the long-term future. 

If they're insistent on bringing up more fringe players before giving innings to Gonsalves or Bard then why not call them up now so the September innings can actually be used on players that have a good chance to stick with the Twins? Why waste more time and innings on Gibson/Santiago/Colon? Everybody knows exactly what that trio is at this point. 

 

 


#37 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:47 AM

 

If they're insistent on bringing up more fringe players before giving innings to Gonsalves or Bard then why not call them up now so the September innings can actually be used on players that have a good chance to stick with the Twins? Why waste more time and innings on Gibson/Santiago/Colon? Everybody knows exactly what that trio is at this point. 

I want to see Gonsalves as much as anyone but is he going to be significantly better than Enns? I don't know the answer to that question.

 

And the Twins are now holding down a postseason spot. Colon needs to be on the roster if he's pitching like vintage Colon. Gibson is expendable but I don't see much of a reason to jettison him, either. He'll get three more starts before rosters expand (and he could be replaced by Mejia before that point). Or he could be replaced by Santiago, who needs to be DFAed or added to the roster before they expand.

 

Given the recent run, I understand the desire to keep everybody as-is for now until some guys get healthy.

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#38 KirbyDome89

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 04:14 PM

 

I want to see Gonsalves as much as anyone but is he going to be significantly better than Enns? I don't know the answer to that question.

 

And the Twins are now holding down a postseason spot. Colon needs to be on the roster if he's pitching like vintage Colon. Gibson is expendable but I don't see much of a reason to jettison him, either. He'll get three more starts before rosters expand (and he could be replaced by Mejia before that point). Or he could be replaced by Santiago, who needs to be DFAed or added to the roster before they expand.

 

Given the recent run, I understand the desire to keep everybody as-is for now until some guys get healthy.

In fairness that post was a week ago before they swept Milwaukee. That said, I've been staunch all year about not putting too much stock in a handful of games whether they're good or bad. 

 

Pat on the back for ol' Bartolo for the complete game and following with another decent start, but he has been much more lackluster than vintage this season so I'm still having a hard time getting excited about him starting games for the Twins. 

 

No, nobody can say for certain that Gonsalves will be better than a guy like Enns, but taking into account his minor league track record as well as the horrific numbers some of the waiver/non-prospect arms have piled up do they really have anything to lose by giving him a shot? That was the point of the post. 


#39 Monkeypaws

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 04:26 PM

I guess this means Gonsalves  has definitively left Stewart in his dust.


#40 DuluthFan

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:18 PM

The waiver trade deadline runs through August. IF a trade is made, those spots given to those minor league non-40 man roster players may be needed. While other moves could be made, it would simplify things if you didn't have to contend with working around moves that didn't have to be made or decided yet. Additionally, if you promote them to the major league team and then acquire a player before the waiver trade deadline, you would then have to option that player back to the minors, using an option year. If you waited until September you could keep the player on the team without wasting an option.