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Article: Twins Trade Kintzler To Nationals

brandon kintzler tyler watson
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#21 Winston Smith

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:38 PM

The ability to spend more Int money is a nice lottery pick.

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#22 gunnarthor

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:38 PM

 

Somebody tell me how to feel about the return

It's a solid trade. If it all works out, Watson could be a back end starter under team control for six years. It's more likely that he's a LH reliever but he has years to work this out. Realistically, the most likely scenario is that he washes out before AAA but he's another good lotto ticket. Most will fail but some will make it.

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#23 Kwak

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:39 PM

 

Finally a FO that is decisive and realistic. Maybe I'm wrong but the past guy would have sat on Kintzler and crossed his fingers.

...and demanded a "hometown discount" for another contract!

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#24 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:39 PM

Okay, I was on board with this trade as a player-for-player swap.

 

And then I saw the $500,000 (!) of international cap space thrown in.

 

Shrewd. Smart. I like the way this front office operates.

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#25 drjim

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:40 PM

Nice little return along with the international money.

 

Twins traded the two guys they had to. Would expect some minor August moves too.

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Papers...business papers.

#26 John Bonnes

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:40 PM

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

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#27 Mike Sixel

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:40 PM

 

Okay, I was on board with this trade as a player-for-player swap.

 

And then I saw the $500,000 (!) of international bonus money thrown in.

 

Shrewd. Smart. I like the way this front office operates.

 

There can't be many top international guys left, frankly. Unless they are going into Japan....

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#28 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:41 PM

 

There can't be many top international guys left, frankly. Unless they are going into Japan....

I suspect there will be backfilling of lesser guys with that money... which isn't a bad way to operate on the margins of the international market, as the bust rate is so high with those guys.

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#29 Mike Sixel

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:42 PM

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

 

I just wanted them to go one or the other, John. I would have loved to have gotten Gray somehow, and another RP, but that was never in the cards, I don't think. 

 

I think they got some lottery tickets, which seems like a reasonable return, but yes, none of these guys are TOP prospects.

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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#30 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:44 PM

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

 

I think you're being a bit hard on Littell personally, but this team needed more than competent relievers.

 

Now that said, I do hope that there is some sort of plan to add a competent starter and a competent reliever this offseason. They will have some nice depth of starting pitching in Rochester next year, but it would not be wise to roll the dice with a number of question marks to start the season.

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#31 Steve Lein

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:44 PM

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

 

Options for the near future.

 

I've been saying it leading up to this, despite them being in division race, their window for competing wasn't open yet (they had the 12th best record in baseball when they were "leading the division"). It closed in a hurry and they made the right type of moves that they could.

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#32 drjim

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:44 PM

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

 

I'm giving the front office some benefit but I agree. I would have kept the two and added another reliever, perhaps another in August if they still remained in the race.

 

I thought they did perfectly fine with their returns considering what they were working with, but none of this is all that franchise altering. And I am much less interested in the rest of the season.

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Papers...business papers.

#33 gunnarthor

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:44 PM

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

I don't disagree. I would say that the bullpen wasn't the only problem. Obviously, the starters are a mixed bag but our offense has been struggling a bit and Kintzler isn't irreplaceable. So, really our choices were maybe trading off Ynoa, Blankenhorn, Curtiss, Garver (some guys in our 10-20) for some modest bullpen help. Maybe that works. Or, we get a little for later and open up some 40 man spots and bring up Romero and Curtiss to the pen, now, and aim for next year.

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#34 70charger

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:45 PM

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

 

Shouldn't we take into account the fact that it's now easier to shuffle the pieces around and get some help from the upper minors? Guys like Garver, Curtiss, Romero, etc. They could all be up tomorrow with some strategic thinking.

 

And not only does that give them valuable experience and probably make us better next year, it's also the exact opposite of giving up if they can perform the way we think they can. Who knows, this might make us better.

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#35 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:45 PM

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

I mean, maybe... but are the Twins really giving up on an attainable goal in the first place? KC and Cleveland just walked away and I don't think the Twins are good enough (or Cleveland bad enough) to ever close that gap.

 

Secondly, this organization's pitching depth is thin, particularly in the upper minors. Sure, maybe none of those guys work out but if even one of them posts a season or two of decent performance, that could be a difference-maker on this team from 2018-2020. The Twins needed arms and they got some.

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#36 Buddy Holly

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:47 PM

Most of he pitching the Twins have dealt for or drafted have one thing in common "above average Curveball". Most scouts indicate this as plus as it is hard to improve a curve. This must be a Falvine requirement.

 

Who closes now? 

 

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#37 alarp33

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:48 PM

 

This likely won't be a very popular opinion, but the Twins gave up on this year for maybe five guys who:

a. probably don't rank in the top 15 in their organization and

b. probably don't rank in the top 300 in the minors and 

c. likely will make little to no difference in their future?

 

That's what Littell, Enns, & Watson are, right? And given the reliever market (which we just saw for Kintzler), they certainly wouldn't have needed to give up much to add a couple of competent relievers.

 

I know it's been a tough week, but this was a mistake. I don't get why they wouldn't ride it and chance the 9% chance they hat making the playoffs. It feels like panic. What did we gain exactly for giving up?

 

I would guess Littell ranks in the Twins top 15, or close to it going into next year.  Same with Watson, who seems like a really nice lottery ticket. 

 

As for "give up on this year" - the Twins traded 1 player from their All Star Break - Major League roster to get all of the pieces you mentioned - a pending Free Agent in Kintzler. If you think making the playoffs was an attainable goal, losing Kintzler (0.7 WAR) shouldn't move those odds by all that much

 

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#38 USAFChief

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:51 PM

Sad.

 

Twins had the type of team over the winter that was obviously ready for a step forward, but had some easily identifiable holes.

 

They do virtually nothing to address those holes, then watch as those holes tank a somewhat promising season.

 

Then dump, for what appears to be most likely org filler.

 

Not my idea of how I want this franchise run.

 

 

 

 

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#39 akmanak

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:55 PM

I was all for trading Kintzler but we hardly got anything for him. Are the Twins planning to dump payroll and spend nothing yet again because that is the way it looks from my porch.
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#40 Mike Sixel

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:55 PM

 

Sad.

 

Twins had the type of team over the winter that was obviously ready for a step forward, but had some easily identifiable holes.

 

They do virtually nothing to address those holes, then watch as those holes tank a somewhat promising season.

 

Then dump, for what appears to be most likely org filler.

 

Not my idea of how I want this franchise run.

 

I share this opinion, but once they didn't do that, I think trading Kintzler at this point makes sense....

 

If they don't add at least one SP and 2 RPs this off season, I will be disappoint.

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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.




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