Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Automate the Strike Zone

  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#41 Oldgoat_MN

Oldgoat_MN

    A starter, please.

  • Members
  • 1,806 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:03 AM

 

It happens that the TD Comment Policy covers this almost exactly:

 

"Sometimes it is difficult to separate the person from the subject being discussed. Maybe someone's opinion is truly stupid or laughable; it's still better to say "I disagree because..." rather than "that's stupid/laughable because...". Trying to maintain that "I said the idea was idiotic, not that you are idiotic" is too fine a distinction to maintain in a thread with multiple posters and hundreds of readers. Words like "silly" and "ridiculous" are going to catch a moderator's eye, likewise a response consisting only of "lol". Explain why an idea is mistaken, don't just lazily attach an adjective, epithet or emoticon to the idea."

I appreciate TD largely because usually both banter and debate are civil.

But what about Riverbrian? He's a moderator and he is both silly and ridiculous.

  • big dog and Wyorev like this

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet just because it has a name or a photo you recognize.

- Abraham Lincoln


#42 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 16,386 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:28 AM

I appreciate TD largely because usually both banter and debate are civil.

But what about Riverbrian? He's a moderator and he is both silly and ridiculous.

lol

  • Oldgoat_MN and SwainZag like this

A cubicle is just a padded cell without a door.


#43 Oldgoat_MN

Oldgoat_MN

    A starter, please.

  • Members
  • 1,806 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:29 AM

 

lol

OK, that literally DID make me laugh out loud.

  • ashburyjohn likes this

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet just because it has a name or a photo you recognize.

- Abraham Lincoln


#44 spinowner

spinowner

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,995 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:03 AM

 

Just curious. Is the strike zone going to be in the same spot for every batter too? So for Jose it would be belt to his eyes? Or would it be judge having to adjust to a strike zone from his shins to his thighs?

It could be the same for everyone or it could be different. As you could tell from reading my previous posts I floated both ideas. And BTW neither description you offer here is anatomically accurate.

 

https://www.google.c...Ozt-_qDr2XI9XM:


#45 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 23,638 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:14 AM

I am all for our robot umpires. The rules should be the same for everyone, and the human element should be about the players. We don't randomly apply different rules in chess or other games, just to have a human element....

 

to put it another way....no one would invent the game to have a human element of rules application, if both robots and humans were the first choice. Maybe for a different game, that had a different purpose for how it provided entertainment, but not serious sports as we understand them now.

Edited by Mike Sixel, 31 July 2017 - 09:15 AM.

  • big dog and bizaff like this

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#46 Craig Arko

Craig Arko

    Mathematically inclined primate

  • Members
  • 7,935 posts
  • LocationThe Congo Basin

Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:17 AM

 

...not serious sports as we understand them now.

Review your signature. ;)

  • Dantes929 likes this

Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries;
for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. - David Hilbert


#47 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 23,638 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:18 AM

 

Review your signature. ;)

 

heh, they are billion dollar businesses, and the sig is about this site....

  • Oldgoat_MN likes this

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#48 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,859 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:22 AM

 

I appreciate TD largely because usually both banter and debate are civil.

But what about Riverbrian? He's a moderator and he is both silly and ridiculous.

Wait.  Is he silly and ridiculous or are his ideas/comments/posts silly and ridiculous? Either way you forgot to include awesome. 

  • Craig Arko, Oldgoat_MN and spinowner like this
Don't Sweat the Small Stuff ... and it's all small stuff.

#49 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,859 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:39 AM

 

I am all for our robot umpires. The rules should be the same for everyone, and the human element should be about the players. We don't randomly apply different rules in chess or other games, just to have a human element....

 

to put it another way....no one would invent the game to have a human element of rules application, if both robots and humans were the first choice. Maybe for a different game, that had a different purpose for how it provided entertainment, but not serious sports as we understand them now.

 
According to rule 2.00 of the Major League Baseball rule book, a strike zone is defined as "that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap"

 I guess we could just keep the definition of strike zone and so yes, the strike zone would definitely be a different size for each batter just like it has been for years, though you would probably have to clarify if that is measured from their stance or from their standing height. I like the idea of still having an umpire behind home plate giving the traditional ball and strike signs but I guess that could be a robot also.  Maybe program it to call plays like this.

 

  • bizaff and Hosken Bombo Disco like this
Don't Sweat the Small Stuff ... and it's all small stuff.

#50 FunnyPenguin

FunnyPenguin

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 206 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:46 AM

I am all for the automation.  Right now a bad called strike or vice versa a ball that should have been a strike, can actually change the outcome of the game or simply an important at bat when the batter/pitcher at fault did perform well and should have been rewarded not put at fault.


#51 Craig Arko

Craig Arko

    Mathematically inclined primate

  • Members
  • 7,935 posts
  • LocationThe Congo Basin

Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:49 AM

Would you want a robot friend?

 

https://www.cnbc.com...ft-eu-plan.html

Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries;
for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. - David Hilbert


#52 spinowner

spinowner

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,995 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:14 PM

The NFL doesn't have lower goalposts for smaller men. The NBA doesn't have lower baskets for smaller men. The NHL doesn't have smaller nets for smaller men. The PGA doesn't allow smaller men to play a shorter course. Professional tennis doesn't have lower nets or smaller courts for smaller men. Soccer, lacrosse, track and field, etc. etc. etc. Only baseball allows the conditions to be different for different people playing in the same game. Does that seem fair?

  • Sconnie and bizaff like this

#53 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 23,638 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 03:00 PM

 

The NFL doesn't have lower goalposts for smaller men. The NBA doesn't have lower baskets for smaller men. The NHL doesn't have smaller nets for smaller men. The PGA doesn't allow smaller men to play a shorter course. Professional tennis doesn't have lower nets or smaller courts for smaller men. Soccer, lacrosse, track and field, etc. etc. etc. Only baseball allows the conditions to be different for different people playing in the same game. Does that seem fair?

 

you know, I never thought of it this way before, I'll have to open my mind up to this thought some.

  • Sconnie and Hosken Bombo Disco like this

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#54 SwainZag

SwainZag

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,810 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 31 July 2017 - 03:27 PM

 

The NFL doesn't have lower goalposts for smaller men. The NBA doesn't have lower baskets for smaller men. The NHL doesn't have smaller nets for smaller men. The PGA doesn't allow smaller men to play a shorter course. Professional tennis doesn't have lower nets or smaller courts for smaller men. Soccer, lacrosse, track and field, etc. etc. etc. Only baseball allows the conditions to be different for different people playing in the same game. Does that seem fair?

 

So what do you do in lower levels of baseball like say little league?  Does the strike zone get higher and higher for each level you go?  I highly doubt kids age 9 would have the same strike zone as Major League players.  


#55 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 7,804 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 03:38 PM

you know, I never thought of it this way before, I'll have to open my mind up to this thought some.

ditto

It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All Star

Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#56 bizaff

bizaff

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 04:04 PM

If you say it's a constant place, people too tall or too short are at a disadvantage.If you have it the same vertical distance but it shifts to be around the center of knees and armpits, taller guys have an advantage because their sweet spot comprises more of the zone. 

 

If you adjust the vertical size of the zone with the knees and armpits, taller guys have a slight disadvantage because the bat path will cover less of the strike zone.I'm guessing this is a very tiny disadvantage.

 

I don't think it's a reasonable argument to have a single strike zone for all players.The whole game is built around the pitcher throwing the ball to the zone where a player can hit it.I'd argue AGAINST the idea that the only reason it was chosen is because of the umpire visual aides.That part of the rules has been around for a while and I see no solid reason to change the size of the zone because we're introducing technology.

 

It would also shift a pretty significant advantage to the pitcher, where pitching already enjoys a pretty significant advantage.

 

If someone out there would please lay out detailed reasons why they prefer human umpiring, please post them - I'd love to hear them.All I've gotten to this point are vague arguments about the human element.


#57 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,043 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 04:10 PM

That comparison feels very much like apples to oranges. Rules pertaining to body size can be found in any sport. The NFL has a designated area where you can can hit an opposing player when making a tackle, a player can't land a helmet to helmet hit. Same with the NBA, if you foul a 5'8" player across the head when he drives to the basket it's a flagrant foul; you can't use the argument that if he was 6'6" it would've been the shoulders. I have 0 pity for players like judge, they have natural advantages as well. Should Miguel Sano not be allowed to swing so fast because he hits the ball too hard? Does Buxton need to have a delay before being allowed to run because he's too fast? These are both physical characteristics that give them an advantage yet I don't hear anybody call it unfair. 

  • SwainZag likes this

#58 spinowner

spinowner

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,995 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 06:11 PM

 

Should Miguel Sano not be allowed to swing so fast because he hits the ball too hard? Does Buxton need to have a delay before being allowed to run because he's too fast? These are both physical characteristics that give them an advantage yet I don't hear anybody call it unfair. 

Exactly. There are no explicit baseball rules based on running speed or bat speed. Why should there be a rule based on height?


#59 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,043 posts

Posted 31 July 2017 - 06:32 PM

 

Why should there be a rule based on height?

You're arguing for a rule based on dimensions as well...

 

The point wasn't that there are no rules pertaining to height. It was that all players will hold advantages in some areas and disadvantages in others. You've chosen to focus on a single advantage a smaller player holds and called for it to be removed but you've completely ignored the other side of the coin; the disadvantages smaller players face, and the advantages larger players have. I'm not calling for a rule to govern Buxton's speed or Sano's power, I'm pointing out that those are advantages they hold over other players due to their physical makeup, yet nobody seems to have a problem with that.

 

 


#60 Craig Arko

Craig Arko

    Mathematically inclined primate

  • Members
  • 7,935 posts
  • LocationThe Congo Basin

Posted 31 July 2017 - 06:40 PM

What's the strategy to get a proposal past this august body?

https://en.m.wikiped...res_Association

Note the directors involved.

Edited by Craig Arko, 31 July 2017 - 06:40 PM.

Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries;
for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. - David Hilbert