Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Automate the Strike Zone

  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#1 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,074 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:29 PM

I was previously against it

 

Followed by Apathetic toward it

 

I'm now officially in the Automate it camp. 

 

The technology is there... Let it happen. 

 

There is no reason to miss balls and strikes in 2018. 

 

=

 

 

  • diehardtwinsfan, jimbo92107, Oldgoat_MN and 6 others like this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#2 Willihammer

Willihammer

    Nostrombolimus

  • Members
  • 7,252 posts
  • LocationSaint Paul

Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:55 PM

Was there a particular pitch that was your tipping point?

Well, there's that.

-Dark Star, RIP


#3 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,074 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:57 PM

 

Was there a particular pitch that was your tipping point?

 

Yeah... About a month ago. The ump missed it by at least a foot and I changed stance on the spot. 

 

And then again tonight... On a 3rd strike call to Vargas. 

 

If they are going to miss by that much. 

 

Automate it. 

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#4 spinowner

spinowner

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,995 posts

Posted 19 July 2017 - 07:56 AM

I am in favor of automation if the systems test out to be better at it than human beings standing behind the plate. And, assuming they are sufficiently accurate, as a corollary I propose a uniform strike zone for all players regardless of height or stance. The only reason those parameters were used for the top and bottom of the strike zone was to provide umpires with a frame of reference. I don't think it's fair that Aaron Judge should have a larger strike zone than Jose Altuve.

  • Riverbrian and h2oface like this

#5 Hosken Bombo Disco

Hosken Bombo Disco

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 8,675 posts

Posted 28 July 2017 - 09:28 PM

Seems like this road trip has seen some terrible ball/strike calls.

 

If done properly, an automated strike zone wouldn't even be noticed by the fan. It would merely look like a really good home plate umpire making the right calls. 

 

  • Riverbrian and h2oface like this

It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All Star

Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#6 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,428 posts

Posted 28 July 2017 - 11:15 PM

 

I propose a uniform strike zone for all players regardless of height or stance. The only reason those parameters were used for the top and bottom of the strike zone was to provide umpires with a frame of reference. I don't think it's fair that Aaron Judge should have a larger strike zone than Jose Altuve.

Huh?


#7 walt-o-meal

walt-o-meal

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 76 posts
  • LocationOozy rat in a sanitary zoO

Posted 29 July 2017 - 12:46 AM

It should have happened years ago.If it ever happens, it will shorten games by 20%.And people will wonder why it took so long.

  • Riverbrian, Oldgoat_MN, h2oface and 1 other like this

#8 HitInAPinch

HitInAPinch

    Look deeply into mine eyes....

  • Members
  • 5,201 posts

Posted 29 July 2017 - 06:33 AM

There are many, many fine baseball simulation games available.  I still favor the human elements.  

  • Winston Smith, notoriousgod71 and Platoon like this

It's not my fault !


#9 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,074 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 29 July 2017 - 08:27 AM

 

There are many, many fine baseball simulation games available.  I still favor the human elements.  

 

IMO... Being against an Automated Strike Zone because you like the human element... also means that you like the random missed calls.

 

And that is similar to telling the ground crew to leave the big rocks in the infield for the crazy bounces. :)  

 

 

 

  • diehardtwinsfan, Oldgoat_MN, h2oface and 3 others like this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#10 HitInAPinch

HitInAPinch

    Look deeply into mine eyes....

  • Members
  • 5,201 posts

Posted 29 July 2017 - 12:31 PM

 

IMO... Being against an Automated Strike Zone because you like the human element... also means that you like the random missed calls.

 

And that is similar to telling the ground crew to leave the big rocks in the infield for the crazy bounces. :)  

 

"Resistance if futile.  You must comply" . Sincerely, Borg.

  • Riverbrian and Oldgoat_MN like this

It's not my fault !


#11 spinowner

spinowner

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,995 posts

Posted 29 July 2017 - 12:58 PM

 

IMO... Being against an Automated Strike Zone because you like the human element... also means that you like the random missed calls.

 

And that is similar to telling the ground crew to leave the big rocks in the infield for the crazy bounces. :)  

Or to have a ladder on the left field wall that is not used for anything.

  • Riverbrian likes this

#12 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,074 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 29 July 2017 - 01:21 PM

 

Or to have a ladder on the left field wall that is not used for anything.

 

I like the ladder;)

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#13 Craig Arko

Craig Arko

    Mathematically inclined primate

  • Members
  • 8,204 posts
  • LocationThe Congo Basin

Posted 29 July 2017 - 01:24 PM

Count me as against. And I automate stuff for a living.
  • Riverbrian, drjim, HitInAPinch and 1 other like this

Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries;
for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. - David Hilbert


#14 spinowner

spinowner

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,995 posts

Posted 29 July 2017 - 01:33 PM

 

I propose a uniform strike zone for all players regardless of height or stance. The only reason those parameters were used for the top and bottom of the strike zone was to provide umpires with a frame of reference. I don't think it's fair that Aaron Judge should have a larger strike zone than Jose Altuve.

 

 

Huh?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking about so I'll expand on this thought.

The reason that the batter's knees and upper body are used to define the bottom and top of the strike zone is because there are no other physical reference points near home plate that an umpire can use to determine the distance above home plate of a pitch as it passes over home plate. It would be simple to define the bottom of the strike zone as being, say, 16 inches above the plate and the top of the strike zone as being, say, 42 inches above the plate but there's no ruler there for the umpire to use. This means that a short batter has a smaller strike zone than a tall batter, with additional variability introduced based on a batter's stance.

The systems for calling strikes rely on cameras at multiple angles and can be programmed with any upper and lower limits for strikes. Having those limits based on the individual batter means that each batter would have to have his strike zone programmed into the computer and the system would have to be reset each time a new batter bats. While I assume this would not be difficult it introduces a risk of error. Having a uniformly-defined strike zone for all players eliminates this risk and, in my opinion, is much more fair than the current definition.


#15 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,428 posts

Posted 29 July 2017 - 01:49 PM

 

I'm not quite sure what you're asking about so I'll expand on this thought.

The reason that the batter's knees and upper body are used to define the bottom and top of the strike zone is because there are no other physical reference points near home plate that an umpire can use to determine the distance above home plate of a pitch as it passes over home plate. It would be simple to define the bottom of the strike zone as being, say, 16 inches above the plate and the top of the strike zone as being, say, 42 inches above the plate but there's no ruler there for the umpire to use. This means that a short batter has a smaller strike zone than a tall batter, with additional variability introduced based on a batter's stance.

The systems for calling strikes rely on cameras at multiple angles and can be programmed with any upper and lower limits for strikes. Having those limits based on the individual batter means that each batter would have to have his strike zone programmed into the computer and the system would have to be reset each time a new batter bats. While I assume this would not be difficult it introduces a risk of error. Having a uniformly-defined strike zone for all players eliminates this risk and, in my opinion, is much more fair than the current definition.

But it's not though. If you set a single strike zone and apply it to every player you're actually giving an advantage to guys like Aaron Judge. As it stands right now every player has the "same," strike zone proportionate to their body size. Judge may have a larger zone than Altuve, but in terms of the % of the body each much cover they're zones are equivalent. If you eliminate that you'll have players like Judge getting to hit in essentially a shoe box while the shortest players at swinging in a zone the size of a fridge. Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration, but the point is that setting a standardized zone doesn't solve an existing imbalance, it creates one. 

  • brvama, Oldgoat_MN and d-mac like this

#16 spinowner

spinowner

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,995 posts

Posted 29 July 2017 - 08:35 PM

 

But it's not though. If you set a single strike zone and apply it to every player you're actually giving an advantage to guys like Aaron Judge. As it stands right now every player has the "same," strike zone proportionate to their body size. Judge may have a larger zone than Altuve, but in terms of the % of the body each much cover they're zones are equivalent. If you eliminate that you'll have players like Judge getting to hit in essentially a shoe box while the shortest players at swinging in a zone the size of a fridge. Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration, but the point is that setting a standardized zone doesn't solve an existing imbalance, it creates one. 

Your point is well taken, but I think that's a much smaller factor than the actual size of the zone. Both players are using the same diameter bat to hit the same diameter ball but Judge has to cover a larger zone. And probably an even bigger factor has to do with the pitcher. Altuve has a higher likelihood of drawing a walk because a smaller zone makes it more difficult for the pitcher to throw strikes. Look at the one at-bat taken by Eddie Gaedel. Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration, but the point is that it seems unfair to the pitcher that a player's height should be a determining factor in the size of the strike zone.


#17 jimbo92107

jimbo92107

    Señor Member

  • Members
  • 3,802 posts
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 29 July 2017 - 11:15 PM

 

I was previously against it

 

Followed by Apathetic toward it

 

I'm now officially in the Automate it camp. 

 

The technology is there... Let it happen. 

 

There is no reason to miss balls and strikes in 2018. 

 

=

A-Bert had a strikeout in Saturday's game, a beautiful slider that hooked from well outside the zone to right over the middle. Batter was completely frozen, ump completely blew it. Two pitches later, the guy laced a single to score a run. 

 

Bring on the robots.

  • Riverbrian, spinowner and d-mac like this

Baseball is easy. Just watch!


#18 jud6312

jud6312

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,135 posts

Posted 29 July 2017 - 11:48 PM

If they were to automate the strike zone, would Castro have any remaining value?

  • Riverbrian, Dantes929 and Platoon like this

#19 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,074 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 30 July 2017 - 07:32 AM

 

If they were to automate the strike zone, would Castro have any remaining value?

 

Sure... For the next two years at least.

 

His contract says so.;)

  • spinowner and jud6312 like this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#20 spinowner

spinowner

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 3,995 posts

Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:38 AM

There is some merit to the argument that tall batters should have higher strike zones and short batters lower ones. So here's a compromise proposal (which I'm not necessarily advocating for or against): The strike zone could be the same size for all batters but the top and the bottom of the zone would be defined based on the batter's height at the shoulders, since that's the primary hinge point for a swung bat. Of course there would be a learning curve for pitchers but I think this would probably be the most fair way to do it from the standpoint of the batter.

 

Edited by spinowner, 30 July 2017 - 10:39 AM.