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DFA Hughes

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#41 Doomtints

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:40 PM

 

Nobody would claim him on waivers but somebody might pick him up since that team would only have to pay the MLB minimum and the Twins pay the remainder of his salary. 

 

As I said previously, I believe that only counts for this year. After that, the new team would need to pick up his salary. Thus, no one will pick him up.

 

I could be incorrect about that, but I believe there was a rule change in this regard many years ago so that the team that DFAs is only on the hook for one year for the full salary if another team picks up the player.

 

Regardless of any of that, I established earlier that my opinion is his salary doesn't matter. It's the same regardless of what happens. The only thing the Twins should consider if player value.

Edited by Doomtints, 17 July 2017 - 01:41 PM.


#42 drjim

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:43 PM

 

As long as you are correct, and having him around does not mean they don't actively replace him during the off season, fine. But I'm not sure any org would do that. I hope to be wrong on every count on this, and that he somehow becomes good again.

 

If they are slotting him in as a mop up man now, what role would you envision the front office planning for him over the offseason?

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#43 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:44 PM

 

If they are slotting him in as a mop up man now, what role would you envision the front office planning for him over the offseason?

 

No idea. But, you were the one saying see how his recovery is during the off season, at least I read it that way. I hope they plan on no role, and replace him.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#44 yarnivek1972

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:00 PM

As I said previously, I believe that only counts for this year. After that, the new team would need to pick up his salary. Thus, no one will pick him up.

I could be incorrect about that, but I believe there was a rule change in this regard many years ago so that the team that DFAs is only on the hook for one year for the full salary if another team picks up the player.

Regardless of any of that, I established earlier that my opinion is his salary doesn't matter. It's the same regardless of what happens. The only thing the Twins should consider if player value.


His salary may not matter to you, but I'm pretty sure it matters to Jim Pohlad. The bottom line is that the Twins aren't in the habit of eating that much salary. Like I said, MAYBE Falvey convinces him that it is best. But I doubt it. btw, the 40 man slot isn't a non-consideration. There are a whole slew of guys that will need to be added this offseason or exposed to rule 5. Gordon and Gonsalves for starters. Curtis, Bard, Reed and Burdi I believe as well. That's not even counting May and O'Rourke who will have to be added back after the season. Think about that for a minute. At least 7 pitchers not on the 40 man now probably will be in November. That means 7 pitchers on the 40 man now will likely need to be removed. Belisle, Breslow, Gibson, Santiago. Those are the easy ones. Boshers, Pressly, Haley, Kintzler. That's not so easy. Indeed, I'll be surprised if all those guys are gone.
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#45 Sconnie

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:09 PM

 

The Twins can DFA him now and still invite him to spring training next year. He'll be around. I believe DFA rules would mean the Twins would have to cover (most of) the salary this year if someone picks him up, but not in additional years. This means no one will pick him up.

 

2017 can be the year that teams jettison terrible players. Boston cut Sandoval with $50M left on the deal. Hughes and Sandoval are roughly equally bad, the difference being that Sandoval was incredible in the playoffs.

 

Boston is still on the hook for all $50 mil - The Twins would be on the hook for the entirety of the remainder of Hughes' contract. The only saving grace would be insurance on injury, or if Hughes retired. 

 

https://sports.yahoo...-150128999.html

 


#46 Jham

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:42 PM

Romero is already on the 40. But I would endorse this plan.


That's right. I forgot they added him. Sort of assumed he want since Jorge got the call before he did.

#47 DocBauer

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:54 PM

I also believe Hughes is probably done. And I am concerned about the 40 man spot going in to next season. I would guess though, that they won't DFA him until the season is over, keeping him around for depth and hope.

I doubt anyone would pick him up, or his salary. So I suppose you could make him an invite next ST if you want to take a flier on improved velocity over additional recovery time.

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#48 Doomtints

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:00 PM

 

His salary may not matter to you, but I'm pretty sure it matters to Jim Pohlad. 

 

Jim pays the salary regardless of what happens. It's a non factor in the decision. 

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#49 Doomtints

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:02 PM

 

That's right. I forgot they added him. Sort of assumed he want since Jorge got the call before he did.

 

In this case it's more about who is on the 25, since that's where Hughes is and will stay unless cut.

Edited by Doomtints, 17 July 2017 - 03:02 PM.

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#50 Deduno Abides

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:21 PM

The salary isn't as big an issue if the team determines he can't be effective any longer. The real stress is being wrong about that decision if he recovers in year two post-surgery.
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#51 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:26 PM

 

The salary isn't as big an issue if the team determines he can't be effective any longer. The real stress is being wrong about that decision if he recovers in year two post-surgery.

 

As opposed to the stress of being wrong in keeping him and him being bad? Which is the more likely outcome, that's how the FO should act, based on their projections of the future, not out of fear or stress.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#52 jaimedude2

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:27 PM

We have seen this movie before the Twins will hang on because of cost invested until they have to give up a decent prospect package and take back somebody else's bad salary. Perhaps they could package him and a prospect for Liriano. Not an advocate of it but that might be the level of swap we are talking about to unload salary, which is something the Pohlad ownership group seems to always insist on.

 

I am ready for Hughes to hit the road to another team. He is wasting a 25 spot as well as a 40 man spot. He just isn't the same pitcher since they discovered the Thoracic outlet syndrome and subsequent surgery. It's too bad because when he could throw harder he could eat innings for the Twins which is what this team needs. Perhaps in couple years he will resume his career and do well for somebody else. I just don't see that day happening with the Twins.

If nothing else the Twins should be soon convinced to put him on the 60 day DL and let him rehab in the GCL or simulated spring training. 

 

Edited by jaimedude2, 17 July 2017 - 03:30 PM.

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#53 yarnivek1972

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:36 PM

Jim pays the salary regardless of what happens. It's a non factor in the decision.


You continuing to repeat it doesn't make it anymore true.

The family history suggests that they will try to at least make him earn that money. There were plenty of other big salaries the Twins could have released over the last 20 years. Rarely did they. And not for nearly the amount owed to Hughes.

#54 Doomtints

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:42 PM

 

You continuing to repeat it doesn't make it anymore true.

The family history suggests that they will try to at least make him earn that money. There were plenty of other big salaries the Twins could have released over the last 20 years. Rarely did they. And not for nearly the amount owed to Hughes.

It's impossible to separate "family history" from "Terry Ryan history" so we don't know if this is true.

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#55 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:08 PM

In regards to the few posters who have brought up insurance.
I'm pretty sure it only pays out if he misses an entire season.
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#56 yarnivek1972

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:13 PM

In regards to the few posters who have brought up insurance.
I'm pretty sure it only pays out if he misses an entire season.


Actually, there is a certain pct or number of games. What that number is, I have no idea. Back when Eric Milton missed almost all year (2003 maybe?) he was covered even though he came back in September. Indeed, his being covered allowed the Twins to bring in Kenny Rogers.

#57 Deduno Abides

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:15 PM

As opposed to the stress of being wrong in keeping him and him being bad? Which is the more likely outcome, that's how the FO should act, based on their projections of the future, not out of fear or stress.


Keeping him if they think he can get better isn't a big problem until a roster crunch occurs, which could be before the Rule V draft or during spring training cut-downs.
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#58 old nurse

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:17 PM

There really isn't a lot of elite athlete data on TOS. Matt Harrison had it in 2009 and it took him until 2011 to come back. 2 years later other injuries would derail his career, but the first tos did not.But it is realy important to make the decision now based on no idea of anything.


#59 Deduno Abides

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:22 PM

It's impossible to separate "family history" from "Terry Ryan history" so we don't know if this is true.


Or playing in the Metrodome history or before Joe Mauer's contract history. You could even make a case that Terry Ryan started to spend on pitchers, but only on a quantity of sub-market pitchers who would take sub-market deals, plus Ervin Santana, instead of focused spending on good pitchers.

Edited by Deduno Abides, 17 July 2017 - 04:23 PM.

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#60 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:32 PM

Actually, there is a certain pct or number of games. What that number is, I have no idea. Back when Eric Milton missed almost all year (2003 maybe?) he was covered even though he came back in September. Indeed, his being covered allowed the Twins to bring in Kenny Rogers.


So I did some research and you are correct on this. Most policies require a 60 to 90 day "deductible", basically. The team eats those first 2-3 months of the injury, then insurance covers a percentages of the rest - typically 50 to 80%.

A couple interesting things I learned.
One, these policies are expensive. On average about 10% of salary for a pitcher.
Two, they often won't even cover pitchers elbow or shoulder, because those are so common. The Diamondbacks had made an offer to resign Brandon Webb, but retracted the offer when the insurance company refused to write a policy covering his right arm.
So, for all we know the Twins may not even have insurance on Hughes.
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