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Olney: Twins are buyers, but second-tier buyers

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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:45 PM

 

This is a point of debate, but I think the Twins would have been happy to trade their prospects. Alas the Ms did not think quite as highly.

 

We don't really now, but given that the Shannon Stewart trade is the one big in season trade made during that time, it might not be a one sided thing that it didn't happen.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#22 drjim

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:49 PM

 

We don't really now, but given that the Shannon Stewart trade is the one big in season trade made during that time, it might not be a one sided thing that it didn't happen.

 

Which is certainly fair, we don't know for sure. I generally think 2010 was a different paradigm for the franchise. They just didn't have enough in prospects to match the offer from the Rangers.

Papers...business papers.

#23 Thrylos

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:55 PM

 

 Go with
Santana
Berrios
Mejia
Colon
Gee/Gibson

 

I am sure that this rotation petrifies the Indians, Red Sox and Astros that the Twins will have to beat in the post-season.

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#24 spycake

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:01 PM

Cahill and Feldman are cheap/good enough that they won't clear waivers in August. They should get dealt in July.

#25 Teflon

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:15 PM

Thanks for bringing up Pavano. He was 9-8 in 2009 with the Indians but with an ERA over 5 when the Twins dealt Yohan Pino for him. Pavano replaced an injured Glen Perkins in the Twins rotation, going 5-4 and also starting game 3 in the ALDS. (Perkins was demoted to AAA instead of being sent on a rehab assignment - which Perkins claimed was done to keep him from qualifying as a Super 2 for arbitration.) Pavano's real impact came the next season when he won 17 games for Minnesota and pitched 7 complete games. The rest of the staff was solid, too, as Blackburn, Baker, Slowey, and Liriano all made 28 or more starts and all won 10 or more games. (Duensing also won 10 in mixed duty)

 

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#26 Ben Noble

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:21 PM

I'd still prefer they try to move legitimately valuable prospects for young, controllable pitching. Gotta give up value to get value.

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#27 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:23 PM

 

I'd still prefer they try to move legitimately valuable prospects for young, controllable pitching. Gotta give up value to get value.

 

Like?

 

They passed/or lost the bidding on Quintana. I doubt Archer is actually available. 

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#28 Twodogs

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:37 PM

I am sure that this rotation petrifies the Indians, Red Sox and Astros that the Twins will have to beat in the post-season.


It petrifies me, but adding Feldman to the rotation isn't going to change that. The only pitcher that would make a difference with how the Red Sox, or the Astros, would feel about the Twins rotation would probably be Gray or Archer. As far as that goes then the Twins would really have to give up a lot, a la Quintana. So what I was saying is that they might as well go with what they got and see how far they get. Because a guy like Feldman can be had via free agency this off season. We already have a rotation full of Feldmans.
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#29 Deduno Abides

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:39 PM

Which is certainly fair, we don't know for sure. I generally think 2010 was a different paradigm for the franchise. They just didn't have enough in prospects to match the offer from the Rangers.


Different manager, two GMs ago. Frankly, the Capps trade was the team trying to go for it, exactly as many people are demanding now. Unfortunately, they were using archaic thoughts and systems about the value of prospects and closers, and how to assess the skills of a closer, so they got snookered while trying to do what most fans consider the right thing. The thought process was to dangle an exciting prospect - at a position, catcher, the team thought it would have covered nearly for eternity - and get the most it could for him, and the manager valued highly a closer on the basis of counting stats. A savvier GM - or management team - should have been able to get more for Ramos or pay less for Capps.
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#30 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:39 PM

Archer plays for the Rays, and the Rays are three games behind Boston.

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#31 Twodogs

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:41 PM

I'd still prefer they try to move legitimately valuable prospects for young, controllable pitching. Gotta give up value to get value.


I agree, but after the Quintana deal it seems as though the price for these types of pitchers is going to be too high, or actually more that what the Twins have to offer.

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#32 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:42 PM

I'm not sure what W-L record or position in the standings becomes acceptable for people before "trying to win" becomes a good goal. Only one poster that I recall has ever actually set a benchmark and then stuck to that bench mark when it rolled around.

 

I'm not sure people realize that the Twins could be 10 games over .500 a year from now, or two years from now, and still be eight games back in the standings and clawing for a wild card anyway.

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#33 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:44 PM

 

I am sure that this rotation petrifies the Indians, Red Sox and Astros that the Twins will have to beat in the post-season.

How about:

 

Santana

best matchup

Berrios

Santana

best matchup 

Berrios

Santana

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#34 Twodogs

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:45 PM

Archer plays for the Rays, and the Rays are three games behind Boston.


Yes, I don't know why his name keeps being brought up, but it does?
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#35 Vanimal46

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:46 PM

 

How about:

 

Santana

best matchup

Berrios

Santana

best matchup 

Berrios

Santana

 

Pretty much exactly what Cleveland did last year. Look at how far they went with that strategy. 

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#36 old nurse

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:52 PM

 

I'm not sure what W-L record or position in the standings becomes acceptable for people before "trying to win" becomes a good goal. Only one poster that I recall has ever actually set a benchmark and then stuck to that bench mark when it rolled around.

 

I'm not sure people realize that the Twins could be 10 games over .500 a year from now, or two years from now, and still be eight games back in the standings and clawing for a wild card anyway.

With half of KC entering free agency, most of the White Sox traded, most of Detroit on Gerotol, the Twins are a bad yearfor the Indians away from being able to once again limp to a title.


#37 Deduno Abides

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:59 PM

The Twins currently have a forecasted 12% chance to make the playoffs. With all the holes on the team, it's hard to see how any one player, including Mike Trout, could even double those odds. Further, the Twins simply don't have the prospects to match what the Cubs traded for Quintana. It doesn't make sense, this year, to tear up the farm system for a long shot chance to make the playoffs and an even longer shot to win.

On the other hand, the players Olney mentions are all for this year, where they won't make nearly the difference that Quintana would have made, and do little to nothing for next year. Therefore, the amount to pay would be small. Their current teams are probably hoping for more than salary relief. However, if someone like the Reds will take Phil Hughes and his salary (and upside, of course) in exchange for Feldman, perhaps Falvine will throw in a prospect.

Edited by Deduno Abides, 17 July 2017 - 03:13 PM.

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#38 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:02 PM

 

Pretty much exactly what Cleveland did last year. Look at how far they went with that strategy. 

 

with a totally similar bullpen!

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#39 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:04 PM

 

With half of KC entering free agency, most of the White Sox traded, most of Detroit on Gerotol, the Twins are a bad yearfor the Indians away from being able to once again limp to a title.

Well, Cleveland is having a bad year this year.

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Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#40 Vanimal46

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:05 PM

 

with a totally similar bullpen!

 

Taylor Rogers baby! The new Andrew Miller. 

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