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Nats - A's Trade

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#1 drjim

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 01:12 PM

Nats pick up Doolittle and Madson for a pretty reasonable price. Maybe (controllable) relievers are gettable for cheaper than I would have guessed if Twins are aggressive.

 

Also possible A's wanted to dump those two (and salaries) before they reverted or got hurt again.

Papers...business papers.

#2 USAFChief

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 02:16 PM

 

Nats pick up Doolittle and Madson for a pretty reasonable price. Maybe (controllable) relievers are gettable for cheaper than I would have guessed if Twins are aggressive.

 

Also possible A's wanted to dump those two (and salaries) before they reverted or got hurt again.

Salary dump, and we know the Twins won't be in on anything like that.

I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#3 darin617

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:00 PM

The first deal might look cheap. What do you think happens now when you take away 2 RP's from the trade market? Supply & demand takes over and the over pay happens.

Maybe the worst thing for Twins fans falling out of contention could be the greatest thing for the future.

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#4 Deduno Abides

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:27 PM

Nats find a GM to trade major league players in exchange for minor league wishes. Seems like I've heard of this before. As a general rule, either side can win theses trades, but for this one, based on the participants, I expect this deal to be one-sided in the Nats' favor.

#5 Deduno Abides

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:30 PM

Nats will still want a closer, hint hint.

#6 drjim

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:35 PM

The first deal might look cheap. What do you think happens now when you take away 2 RP's from the trade market? Supply & demand takes over and the over pay happens.
Maybe the worst thing for Twins fans falling out of contention could be the greatest thing for the future.


But two holes were filled, so demand drops too.

I wonder if Beane expects a buyers market, wanted to get ahead of it
Papers...business papers.

#7 Rosterman

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:02 PM

Salary dump, and you trade for bulk hoping someone is fresh!

 

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#8 Thrylos

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:27 PM

 

Nats pick up Doolittle and Madson for a pretty reasonable price. Maybe (controllable) relievers are gettable for cheaper than I would have guessed if Twins are aggressive.

 

Also possible A's wanted to dump those two (and salaries) before they reverted or got hurt again.

 

Twins' equivalent:Jordan Balazovic, Travis Blackenhorn, and Tyler Duffey.

 

Reasonable?

 

Would you do it?

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#9 drjim

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:34 PM

Twins' equivalent: Jordan Balazovic, Travis Blackenhorn, and Tyler Duffey.

Reasonable?

Would you do it?


Yes
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Papers...business papers.

#10 old nurse

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 05:38 PM

 

Twins' equivalent:Jordan Balazovic, Travis Blackenhorn, and Tyler Duffey.

 

Reasonable?

 

Would you do it?

Duffey is much better than Luzardo. Hopefully Balzovic's ceiling is higher than what Trienen has done.


#11 spycake

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 05:58 PM

Duffey is much better than Luzardo. Hopefully Balzovic's ceiling is higher than what Trienen has done.


I think Duffey was the approximate Treinen equivalent. Balzovic = Luzardo, Blakenhorn = Neuse.
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#12 old nurse

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 07:23 PM

 

I think Duffey was the approximate Treinen equivalent. Balzovic = Luzardo, Blakenhorn = Neuse.

It really isn't too hard to figure out what he meant.

Treinan appears to be a mop up right handed pitcher.Duffey is hardly a comparable to that.Luzardo is a lefty with a mid 90 fastball and a big curveA high ceiling, high risk prospect. because of already having TJ. Balazovic has neither similar pitches , handededness, nor the ceiling..It was a bad comp.

Edited by old nurse, 16 July 2017 - 07:24 PM.


#13 spycake

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 07:58 PM

Treinan appears to be a mop up right handed pitcher. Duffey is hardly a comparable to that.


Treinen had a 2.28 ERA, 8.5 K/9, and 1.34 average game entering leverage index last year. Duffey is at 4.74 ERA, 8.7 K/9, and 1.25 leverage index this year. Duffey is younger and has a year less service time, but they're really not that far apart in usage or performance to date. The Twins don't really have a better comp, I don't think (Pressly has a year more service time than Treinen, and is perhaps a bit more conspicuously bad this year).
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#14 spycake

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:30 PM

Maybe Ynoa or Graterol would be better matches for / could be an offer of Luzardo?

#15 jorgenswest

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:39 PM

Twins' equivalent:Jordan Balazovic, Travis Blackenhorn, and Tyler Duffey.
 
Reasonable?
 
Would you do it?


Yes. No.

#16 USAFChief

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 09:15 PM

The first deal might look cheap. What do you think happens now when you take away 2 RP's from the trade market?.


Nothing, except I think it proves that there are reasonable trade targets out there if Falvine decide to act.

This deal doesn't alter the market.
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I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#17 spycake

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 05:50 AM

I don't know. The more I look at this deal, I don't know how you say no to Thrylos's hypothetical, and probably even more.

For all of his injuries, Doolittle has pitched the bulk of every season of the last 6 except one (2015), has been consistently good while doing it, and is controlled cheaply for potentially 3 more past this one. Honestly, he may have been the best relief target available -- good, controllable, with just enough surface issues to keep his asking price down (as compared to Hand).

And after missing 3 years, Madson has been healthy for 3 years now, and is pitching about as well as he ever has. Controlled for 2018 at a reasonable sum too (7 mil).

We only have 2 trusted guys in our current pen, which is bad enough going into a pennant race, but Kintzler is a pending FA and Rogers has a 6.7 K/9 (not to mention Kintzler's 5.4). I really don't see how the Twins could pass that up.

Once again, it pays to be on Oakland's speed dial, I think.
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#18 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:55 AM

I'd have been happy on either side of that deal.

 

Either play to win, or play for the future, but playing the middle never works.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#19 kab21

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:27 AM

 

Salary dump, and we know the Twins won't be in on anything like that.

This is getting to be a very tired criticism. Especially in a trade where both RP's are more valuable than their contracts. This isn't even a salary dump imo.

I would instantly do Thrylos's hypothetical trade to add 2 very good RP's to the bullpen. And these guys aren't even rentals.

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Is 2016 2017 2018 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Offseason (noun) - a time to propose trades assuming opposing GM's can't do the same basic analysis


#20 USAFChief

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 10:54 PM

This is getting to be a very tired criticism. Especially in a trade where both RP's are more valuable than their contracts. This isn't even a salary dump imo.
I would instantly do Thrylos's hypothetical trade to add 2 very good RP's to the bullpen. And these guys aren't even rentals.


Tired, but accurate. I'll believe the Twins will take on salary to get better when I see it happen.

I am not the paranoid you're looking for.