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Kyle Gibson: Haven't We Seen Enough?

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#41 Doomtints

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:03 AM

This isn't the first time Molitor neglected to put the best defense behind Gibson with the same result.

 

Yes, Gibson sucks and needs to be replaced. Knowing this, Molitor should have the best defense behind him to have a chance to win the game. 

 

It's difficult to not conclude one of these things:

 

- Molitor thinks Gibson is better than he is, and doesn't think he needs the best defense behind Gibson if the Twins want a chance to win the game.

- Molitor wants Gibson to fail (doubt it).

- Molitor wants himself to fail (doubt it).

- Molitor doesn't understand the true value of defense (also seems doubtful, but with the mistakes Molitor made over the years around pitching, it's hard to know for sure).

 

I put this last loss on Molitor. If you know a pitcher is bad, you put the best defense you can behind him. Period.

Edited by Doomtints, 10 July 2017 - 10:09 AM.

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#42 spanman2

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:03 AM

 

Dude hits 95 with a sinking 4 seamer.  That is hard to find. Slider and change can both be swing and miss pitches when the command is there (sporatic).  I'd rather see him scrap a pitch and move to the pen before giving up on the guy.  To me, he's a 5th starter.  He has ok ones, and he has rough ones.  That's what 5th starters do.

He has the talent for certain.Makes you wonder if it is between the ears where he is lacking.His confidence could be shot.Would be great if he could be counted on a consistent basis but that has not been the case.

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#43 djvang

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:17 AM

I've certainly seen enough of him. Usually he waits until the 4th inning to implode. He's useless.

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#44 mikelink45

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:22 AM

Lets move Santiago first - get Gonsalves up, get Romero up, if they need fine tuning then there should be nothing better than a major league coach.  Then get Gibson out with some more pitching auditions, but NO COLON.  Has everyone been looking at the wrong calendar - this is 2017 not 2007.  Colon is old, fat and done.  He has no upside so don't bother and the same with all the other dumpster diving souvenirs.  Let's investigate the minors and see if we have any talent because their struggles will be no worse than any of the other options unless we sign Sonny Grey.  But please I do not want to see an oldtimers game every fifth day.

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#45 LimestoneBaggy

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:42 AM

 

I've certainly seen enough of him. Usually he waits until the 4th inning to implode. He's useless.

 

I want to see him as a reliever before I consider him useless. I see potential in the pen.

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#46 nicksaviking

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:03 AM

 

The thought of Colon starting for the Twins through the end of the season just makes me cringe.

 

Yeah, I'm not really interested unless the plan is to let him regain some value and flip him for a (very minimal) return.

 

But his spot is inevitable I'd think, he's not signing here if it wasn't.


#47 OldTimeTwinkie

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:05 AM

Gibson is still a very valuable asset for our bullpen. Cleveland has a pitcher that is much the same in Zach McAllister who they converted to the bullpen with success. Our GM should know this.
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#48 nicksaviking

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:07 AM

 

This isn't the first time Molitor neglected to put the best defense behind Gibson with the same result.

 

Yes, Gibson sucks and needs to be replaced. Knowing this, Molitor should have the best defense behind him to have a chance to win the game. 

 

It's difficult to not conclude one of these things:

 

 

I'd guess it's just your typical atypical Sunday lineup. Sunday off-days to regulars is pretty common.

 

Molitor is a lame duck manager too, he's managing for his next contract. I think he makes plenty of poor decisions but I'd think it unlikely he's intentionally failing to spite a pitcher.


#49 laloesch

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:08 AM

 

Yeah, I'm not really interested unless the plan is to let him regain some value and flip him for a (very minimal) return.

 

But his spot is inevitable I'd think, he's not signing here if it wasn't.

 

Yeah.  Derek Falvey sure look excited when discussing the signing with the media.  He was smiles ear to ear.  My impression is that he seems to think he's one tweak away with his delivery from being a solid effective starter again and even wants to pitch beyond this season, hooray!  Honestly i think the FO is going to roll him out there the rest of the season. Yikes!

Edited by laloesch, 10 July 2017 - 11:12 AM.


#50 jimmer

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:08 AM

One has to wonder, how many pitchers perfromances we can accept because they are what one expects from 5th starters?
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#51 spycake

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:10 AM


#52 Vanimal46

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:42 AM

What would draw more TV ratings? 

Watching Bartolo pitch against the Yankees? 

 

OR 

Watching Bartolo square off in a pre-game spread eating contest vs. the beat writers (Reusse, LEN3, Phil Miller)? 

 

 

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#53 Linus

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:43 AM

This isn't the first time Molitor neglected to put the best defense behind Gibson with the same result.

Yes, Gibson sucks and needs to be replaced. Knowing this, Molitor should have the best defense behind him to have a chance to win the game.

It's difficult to not conclude one of these things:

- Molitor thinks Gibson is better than he is, and doesn't think he needs the best defense behind Gibson if the Twins want a chance to win the game.
- Molitor wants Gibson to fail (doubt it).
- Molitor wants himself to fail (doubt it).
- Molitor doesn't understand the true value of defense (also seems doubtful, but with the mistakes Molitor made over the years around pitching, it's hard to know for sure).

I put this last loss on Molitor. If you know a pitcher is bad, you put the best defense you can behind him. Period.


Yep. He should have positioned Granite in the home run porch when Jones was up.
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#54 big dog

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:59 AM

It isn't bad defense that makes Gibson throw hanging curves over the middle of the plate.  Bad defense turns upper-deck home runs from 2-run shots to 3-run shots, but Gibson is getting shelled all on his own merits.

 

He's also being taken out early all the time, where again it isn't facing an extra batter or two that makes the difference.

 

I think defense matters, of course, but I think the Gibson Effect outweighs everything else in this case.

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#55 Mike Sixel

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 12:10 PM

Side comment: it's unclear to me what accomplishments Neil Allen has had, but one thing I note is that Gibson had a pretty good change and sinker in 2015 and that both are now scoring much worse. However, Gibson seems healthy. Allen had a reputation as a change expert. If Allen can't help Gibson, or at least keep him even with his past averageness, what good is Allen?

Side-side comment: Allen also had a reputation as the minor league pitcher guru for the Rays, but they don't seem to be missing him. Maybe his reputation was as undeserved as that Gonzaga coach hired for Gophers basketball several years ago. Gonzaga just got better after he left while the Gophers became terrible.


Very legit questions
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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#56 yarnivek1972

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 02:40 PM

 

This isn't the first time Molitor neglected to put the best defense behind Gibson with the same result.

 

Yes, Gibson sucks and needs to be replaced. Knowing this, Molitor should have the best defense behind him to have a chance to win the game. 

 

It's difficult to not conclude one of these things:

 

- Molitor thinks Gibson is better than he is, and doesn't think he needs the best defense behind Gibson if the Twins want a chance to win the game.

- Molitor wants Gibson to fail (doubt it).

- Molitor wants himself to fail (doubt it).

- Molitor doesn't understand the true value of defense (also seems doubtful, but with the mistakes Molitor made over the years around pitching, it's hard to know for sure).

 

I put this last loss on Molitor. If you know a pitcher is bad, you put the best defense you can behind him. Period.

 

 

That's a curious take to say that Gibson lost because Molitor didn't put the best defense behind him.  The only regular that didn't start was Buxton.  I'm pretty sure Granite made one of the top plays in all of MLB yesterday behind Gibson.  So what plays, in your opinion, weren't made that cost the Twins the game?  I don't remember any.

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#57 USAFChief

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:04 PM

 

I'd guess it's just your typical atypical Sunday lineup. Sunday off-days to regulars is pretty common.

 

Molitor is a lame duck manager too, he's managing for his next contract. I think he makes plenty of poor decisions but I'd think it unlikely he's intentionally failing to spite a pitcher.

Not to make too much of this, and in the case of yesterday's game, defense had little to do with Gibson's trouble, but...

 

Sunday off-day to regulars, on the day before the AS break?

 

 

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I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#58 h2oface

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:09 PM

 

That might be true, but he's going to get a shot once he's ready.
He's not going to go ride buses in AAA at his age unless he's been promised a shot in the rotation.

 

Plus, who wants to have to suffer the overflow in the seat next to him on the bus?

He won't be a fave to sit next to on the plane, either.

Edited by h2oface, 10 July 2017 - 04:24 PM.


#59 yarnivek1972

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:24 PM

Not to make too much of this, and in the case of yesterday's game, defense had little to do with Gibson's trouble, but...

Sunday off-day to regulars, on the day before the AS break?


Just to repeat: there was one regular not in the starting lineup: Byron Buxton.

#60 ewen21

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:46 PM

 

sign him to a ridiculous and unnecessary contract extension? 

 

That was in the fairly early stages of Blackburn's career.  I am talking about what the Twins did with him in 2012.