Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Kyle Gibson: Haven't We Seen Enough?

  • Please log in to reply
141 replies to this topic

#21 DJSim22

DJSim22

    Charlestown

  • Members
  • 529 posts

Posted 09 July 2017 - 09:47 PM

 

Gibson has been quite disappointing, but he was almost OK in June and the team is essentially doing tryouts already for one spot in the rotation. Over the next few weeks, there is a reasonable chance that Santana could be traded, leaving two open spots. Santiago has not proven that he's any better than Gibson, and now he's sounding questionable in the clubhouse. There's nobody in AAA who's shown real potential. Much as fans may want Gonsalves and Romero, they're pitching well in AA, but not exactly dominating, and the team isn't going to rush them. If Gibson were removed, that would make two open spots with the potential for a third if Santana is traded. It is unlikely any team wants to have tryouts for two spots in the rotation, especially when they may open another spot. Therefore, unless and until someone else steps up, the best choice is to hope for the best from Gibson.

Right now, someone else means Colon and Gee. It sure would have been nice if Meyer, May and Stewart (and Worley) had worked out.

 

This of course is assuming they trade Santana and do not get anyone back in the trade that is MLB ready.We can hope that a second piece could be a lower ceiling MLB pitcher. 


#22 Jham

Jham

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1,343 posts

Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:10 PM

Dude hits 95 with a sinking 4 seamer.  That is hard to find. Slider and change can both be swing and miss pitches when the command is there (sporatic).  I'd rather see him scrap a pitch and move to the pen before giving up on the guy.  To me, he's a 5th starter.  He has ok ones, and he has rough ones.  That's what 5th starters do.

  • pbrezeasap, Dantes929, beckmt and 5 others like this

#23 akmanak

akmanak

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 202 posts

Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:15 PM

Are only option to replace Gibson is an overweight senior. Stick Gibson in the bullpen since our bullpen needs help too.
  • Dr. Evil likes this

#24 twinsnorth49

twinsnorth49

    1st place......or bust.

  • Twins Mods
  • 10,086 posts

Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:47 PM

Gibson just doesn't have MLB-level command. It's a fairly straightforward problem and there's really no reason to think it's fixable at this point in his career.


Yep, pretty much this.
  • beckmt, laloesch, HitInAPinch and 1 other like this

#25 gman

gman

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 83 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 05:21 AM

Are Santiago and Gibson being brought back next year? Is Colon or Gee a long term answer? Slegers or Hurlbut may not be #3 or 4 long term in the rotation but the team does need to find out if they have a 5, 6 or 7 available at AAA. This years pitching try out camps for both the bullpen and rotation hasn't give many long term answers for a (hoped) future playoff team. I continue to hope for better results next year. We are only 6 or 7 weeks away from the and of the minor league season and may see some future pieces be added in September..


#26 Blackjack

Blackjack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 673 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 06:54 AM

You have to be disappointed if you're one of the young AAA starters. The Twins keep bringing in waiver wire pickups or bringing up a starter from AA when they need a 5th starter, the AAA starters have to be wondering why they are there or thinking "what am I, chopped liver"?

  • David HK likes this

#27 flags

flags

    Elizabethton

  • Members
  • 18 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls

Posted 10 July 2017 - 07:01 AM

 

Can we do the same thing we did with Blackburn if Gibson's next outing resembles this last one?  

 

sign him to a ridiculous and unnecessary contract extension? 

  • nicksaviking, Dantes929, snepp and 3 others like this

#28 lukeduke1980

lukeduke1980

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 230 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 07:05 AM

I think the best thing to do is market him to an NL team who might be able to turn him around.  Maybe like Pittsburgh who has made Ivan Nova into an almost All Star


#29 Taildragger8791

Taildragger8791

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 735 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 07:32 AM

 

You have to be disappointed if you're one of the young AAA starters. The Twins keep bringing in waiver wire pickups or bringing up a starter from AA when they need a 5th starter, the AAA starters have to be wondering why they are there or thinking "what am I, chopped liver"?

 

The AAA starting options stink much worse than chopped liver. At least chopped liver can be used as bait to bring in bigger & better fish.

 

Making it to AAA is quite an accomplishment but it doesn't mean they're destined to be an MLB player. Sports are (ideally) a meritocracy.


#30 Respy

Respy

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 201 posts
  • LocationNorth 'Burbs

Posted 10 July 2017 - 07:41 AM

According to Paul Molitor in this article,

 

Friday @ Houston: J.O. Berrios

Saturday @Houston: Ervin Santana
Sunday @ Houston: Kyle Gibson
Monday home vs. Yankees: Adalberto Mejia
Tuesday home vs. Yankees: ???

 

Tuesday could be Colon, Hughes, Santiago, Gee, Jorge.  I think Gibson's start Sunday could be a make-or-break, because I figure Santiago will be in the rotation upon return, and they'll give at least a few starts to Colon.  If they want to buy an extra start or two for Gibson, they could send Santiago for a rehab start or two at Rochester.

 

Edited by Respy, 10 July 2017 - 07:42 AM.

  • howieramone2 likes this

#31 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Minnesota Twins Whine Line Host

  • Members
  • 7,614 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 10 July 2017 - 07:57 AM

 

Gibson just doesn't have MLB-level command. It's a fairly straightforward problem and there's really no reason to think it's fixable at this point in his career.

 

Bingo. I don't really care how modest his contract rate will be this off-season. The Twins need to move on. 

  • Dr. Evil likes this

#32 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,093 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:01 AM

The odd thing about how difficult it's been to find pitching help from within the system is that the Rochester team leads a 14 team league in team ERA and WHIP. WIthout examining it closely, I'd guess a lot of that number comes from the production of relievers who have come up and been at best spotty for the big club: Boshers, Busenitz, Hildenberger, Pressly, Tonkin, and others. But still, you'd think success of that magnitude in AAA would translate better.

Edited by birdwatcher, 10 July 2017 - 08:02 AM.

  • Jerr and h2oface like this

#33 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,724 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:01 AM

Gibson is now you basic 5th starter and he will have good and bad starts.He also is rapidlly become a nontender candidate so will not be a Twins issue after this year.This could all change after some more good starts, but he is running out of chances.Colon was promised something to get him to sign here, so baring a couple of horrible starts in Rochester, he will get at least 2 - 3 starts for the Twins.One of the current Twins starters will be elsewhere at that time.

Edited by beckmt, 10 July 2017 - 08:02 AM.

  • Dantes929 likes this

#34 laloesch

laloesch

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,116 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:14 AM

 

The AAA starting options stink much worse than chopped liver. At least chopped liver can be used as bait to bring in bigger & better fish.

 

Making it to AAA is quite an accomplishment but it doesn't mean they're destined to be an MLB player. Sports are (ideally) a meritocracy.

 

Really?  Slegers is decent.  Guy is huge too at 6-10.  9-4, 3.75 era through 16 starts.  His k/9 is nothing special at 6.8 but it's heading the right direction from previous levels.  Make no mistake he's probably destined to be a RP, but he does throw three pitches (FB, Slider, Changeup) with consistency, something Alex Meyer has never been able to master.  

  • MN_ExPat likes this

#35 Taildragger8791

Taildragger8791

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 735 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:24 AM

 

Really?  Slegers is decent.  Guy is huge too at 6-10.  9-4, 3.75 era through 16 starts.  His k/9 is nothing special at 6.8 but it's heading the right direction from previous levels.  Make no mistake he's probably destined to be a RP, but he does throw three pitches (FB, Slider, Changeup) with consistency, something Alex Meyer has never been able to master.  

 

Decent, but as you said he isn't likely an MLB starter. His numbers are okay for AAA but don't project to success at the next level right now. The guys in AA have more talent and the Twins chose to bet on talent over seniority. Sounds reasonable to me.


#36 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 10,468 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:39 AM

 

According to Paul Molitor in this article,

 

Friday @ Houston: J.O. Berrios

Saturday @Houston: Ervin Santana
Sunday @ Houston: Kyle Gibson
Monday home vs. Yankees: Adalberto Mejia
Tuesday home vs. Yankees: ???

 

Tuesday could be Colon, Hughes, Santiago, Gee, Jorge.  I think Gibson's start Sunday could be a make-or-break, because I figure Santiago will be in the rotation upon return, and they'll give at least a few starts to Colon.  If they want to buy an extra start or two for Gibson, they could send Santiago for a rehab start or two at Rochester.

 

I can't imagine Colon came here instead of going back to the Mets unless the Twins promised him a rotation spot. I'd guess he'll be in the rotation after the AS break but whether it's Santiago's or Gibson's spot will be determined by Santiago's health.  

 

I'm surprised both Colon and Gee don't take both of their spots though. Perhaps Santiago's attitude after his last shelling is indicative of his normal behavior and the team wants to hold off as long as possible putting him in the pen because the team knows he'll be disruptive if demoted?

 

Also, giving Gibson, not Colon the honor of getting shelled by Houston might just be intentionally setting the table for a "straw that broke the camel's back" kind of scenario. Otherwise, wouldn't Mejia really be the team's 3rd starter at this point?

  • Dozier's Glorious Hair likes this

#37 laloesch

laloesch

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,116 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:49 AM

 

I can't imagine Colon came here instead of going back to the Mets unless the Twins promised him a rotation spot. I'd guess he'll be in the rotation after the AS break but whether it's Santiago's or Gibson's spot will be determined by Santiago's health.  

 

I'm surprised both Colon and Gee don't take both of their spots though. Perhaps Santiago's attitude after his last shelling is indicative of his normal behavior and the team wants to hold off as long as possible putting him in the pen because the team knows he'll be disruptive if demoted?

 

Also, giving Gibson, not Colon the honor of getting shelled by Houston might just be intentionally setting the table for a "straw that broke the camel's back" kind of scenario. Otherwise, wouldn't Mejia really be the team's 3rd starter at this point?

 

The thought of Colon starting for the Twins through the end of the season just makes me cringe.

  • Jerr, Craig Arko, h2oface and 1 other like this

#38 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,417 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 09:29 AM

I would not remove Gibson from the rotation until there is someone holding down the #5 spot. The Twins don't need 2 revolving doors. And if you don't look at advanced stats (they are terrible) Gibson was adequate in June after his demotion.

 

Make no mistake about it though, he has been awful. I have no expectations that anyone else is better though and those other options are going to get plenty of chances. This is how bad the Twins rotation depth is. This is also why I am in favor of trading a top 20-ish prospect for a backend starter. Or for trading for Gray.

  • Craig Arko, Sconnie, Vanimal46 and 1 other like this

Is 2016 2017 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Looks like we will have to wait another year until a good pitching prospect is actually blocked.


#39 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 11,497 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 09:48 AM

 

Bingo. I don't really care how modest his contract rate will be this off-season. The Twins need to move on. 

Yeah.  Gibson will probably be a decent risk for someone at $4 mil or whatever next season, but he would seem to be a far worse bet for the Twins at that figure (and perhaps more importantly, a roster spot all winter).  Kinda like when Liriano signed with Pittsburgh -- solid gamble for them, but it probably would have been a stupid gamble for the Twins, since nothing had changed from when he struggled mightily here.

  • Jerr likes this

#40 SweetOne69

SweetOne69

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 634 posts

Posted 10 July 2017 - 09:50 AM

 

Santiago will be back from DL before a 5th starter is needed.

Berrios
Erv
Mejia
Colon
Santiago

I get that Santiago isn't a great option either, but he's still better than Gibson, IMO.

 

Correction:Santiago will be eligible to come back, whether he is ready to is another matter.

  • kab21 likes this