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Article: Searching For Relief

phil hughes pat neshek ryan pressly glen perkins john curtiss
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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 08:34 AM

I just want them to give the inexperienced players a chance to succeed and fail. They'll never be ready next year, if the rule is you can't put them in tough situations as rookies. I just don't buy it, that inexperience in and of itself is reason not to give them a shot. Talent might be....but that's not what I feel is always happening here.

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#22 spycake

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 08:38 AM

I wonder how much of this is because of the scenario when they made their first appearances. Most of the other emergency call-ups have been thrown into the fire because arms where needed NOW. Similar cases for these two, but apperance #1 was in a much calmer time of the game, not being called mid-inning to stop a rally before a game gets out of control.


The previous call ups (save perhaps Rosario jumping up after only 30 career innings at AA) were all obviously worse pitchers too. Seriously, I don't think game situation is what was holding Wimmers back in 2017.

#23 spycake

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 08:48 AM

30 y.o. righty journeyman Kirby Yates (2.28 ERA, 2.76 FIP, 13.7 K/9, 3.0 BB/9, 1.268 WHIP), also of the Padres who is under team control for 3 years might be another addition.


Yates looks very Tonkin-esque, right down to being available on waivers 2 months ago and his current low-leverage assignment. I probably wouldn't bother with him, except perhaps if he was a throw-in with Brad Hand or something.

#24 USAFChief

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 08:54 AM

We've been reading since at least 2015 that the Twins don't need to find bullpen help, because it's right around the corner. Just be patient, and by next year Reed/Burdi/Chargois/Bard/etc/etc/etc will be here and be teh awesome. Maybe even sooner!

It's folly, just as depending on minor leaguers always is. Never depend on minor leaguers to succeed. If one or two or ten even, force their way onto the big league team, great. Too much talent has never been a problem.
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#25 Twodogs

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 10:04 AM

 

Go young.  We are building a team and all the dumpster grabs we have made this year have not been the reason we are having a good year.  It must be something in the Minnesota air that has us continually looking out to find old Twins to bring back. 

I really agree with this as far as the bullpen goes, use the young guys see what they have.  a Neshek can always be picked up for cheap at the deadline if still in contention.  The rotation is a different matter, there aren't any internal options that are really close to being ready, so might as well see what Gee and a few guys like that can do to hold crap together at the backend of the rotation when we need them at least for this year?  Next year hopefully there will be a better plan in place for the rotation.  But as far as the bullpen goes, keep rolling out some young guys and see what they got?

Edited by Twodogs, 27 June 2017 - 10:06 AM.

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#26 Doomtints

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 10:35 AM

Generally I am against myopic responses and solutions, but there is too much to fix with the pitching and there are no extraneous players on this team apart from Dozier. They had better not be trading Dozier for bullpen arms, and they had better not be making holes elsewhere to get a deal done either.

 

I'm not worried about it, I'm taking a leap of faith and hoping Twins management knows they have no one to spare. Fixing the pitching with this team has to be a process, not an event. It's going to take time. There are simply no trades possible that would fix every pitching problem this team has, nor are there any trades possible that would bring the team's pitching up to average. It's sink or swim with what they have or trade with cash, and cash only deals make the Twins a last resort trading partner. No one wants the Twins 6.00 ERA guns.

Edited by Doomtints, 27 June 2017 - 10:43 AM.


#27 Doomtints

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 10:57 AM

 

Given the waiver wire carousel, it's quite stunning how Breslow and Belisle have survived this long when they provide essentially nothing better than anyone else who has come and gone. Any idea why that is?

 

Breslow was good until this month, with a 1.47 ERA one month ago tomorrow.

Which free agent pitchers do you think are better?

You saw the Twins picked up Gee from waivers, I'm guessing, so you can't say they haven't been paying attention.


#28 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 11:26 AM

It must be the 22 games  Belisle did not allow a run and the 12 times he was credited with a hold. In high leverage situations batters are hitting .118. Numbers that the fans do not seem to pay much attention to.
 
Breslow because LH bats are hitting .129 against him. Management likes his brain.

Good catch on the Breslow platoon split this season. However, he has no good platoon splits in any recent seasons prior to his signing this winter. Molitor rightly trusts Rogers and Boshers more. So, we seem to disagree on the value of Breslow's intangible strengths.
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#29 Shaitan

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 12:13 PM

 

Good catch on the Breslow platoon split this season. However, he has no good platoon splits in any recent seasons prior to his signing this winter. Molitor rightly trusts Rogers and Boshers more. So, we seem to disagree on the value of Breslow's intangible strengths.

 

Except that he retooled his pitching approach prior to this year, so previous season splits may not be relevant anymore...assuming he hasn't reverted to old habits.


#30 spycake

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 12:24 PM

Except that he retooled his pitching approach prior to this year, so previous season splits may not be relevant anymore...assuming he hasn't reverted to old habits.


Still, the Twins haven't trusted him to do anything but short mop-up work.
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#31 gheggs42

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 02:44 PM

They should target Madson and Doolittle. This would add 2 more proven closers although I think I'd make Madson the closer with Doolittle and Kintzler as the setup guys. 

 

Would a package of Polanco, Palka, Ynoa, and maybe someone like Graterol be enough? I know Madson is controlled through next year and Doolittle has some options coming up I believe


#32 spycake

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 02:54 PM

The Blue Jays just DFA'd Jason Grilli and his 6.97 ERA. Grilli's plea that he hasn't allowed in run in ~70% of his appearances must have fallen on deaf ears.

Belisle and his 6.99 ERA must be feeling the heat!
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#33 yarnivek1972

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 03:45 PM

It must be the 22 games Belisle did not allow a run and the 12 times he was credited with a hold. In high leverage situations batters are hitting .118. Numbers that the fans do not seem to pay much attention to.

Breslow because LH bats are hitting .129 against him. Management likes his brain.


Breslow has also walked 4 lefties and only struck out 4 in almost 40 PA. Breslow has better BB and K rates vs RHP. He has an impossibly low .166 BABIP vs LHB as well. Boil it all down and it suggests that Breslow's success against lefties this year is largely a result of luck and/or because he's pitching in low leverage situations.

As for Belisle, did you not see his horrendous performance in a high leverage situation last night? He allowed an inherited run to score and he turned a bad situation into an impossible one.

#34 spinowner

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 03:55 PM

 

 ...former closer Glen Perkins seems much further away from making a return. Manager Paul Molitor told reporters on Monday that Perkins could resume throwing after he receives a cortisone shot. This could come as early as Tuesday but there are no guarantees for Perkins. At this point, it seems like a long-shot for him to make an appearance this season.

 

At this point, it seems like a long-shot for him to make an appearance in the future.

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#35 Rosterman

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 05:24 PM

A good trade dangle for a Neshek would've been someone like Melotakis along with another minor league prospect. Again, a Top 20 prospect who had advance in the minors being waived rather than considered trade bait has me shaking my head. That's the type of guy you are dangling in a trade...people you MAY remove from the 40-man between now and November...plus somewhere else you have depth (like shortstop....Palacios, Vielma, etc.).

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#36 drjim

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 06:08 PM

They should target Madson and Doolittle. This would add 2 more proven closers although I think I'd make Madson the closer with Doolittle and Kintzler as the setup guys.

Would a package of Polanco, Palka, Ynoa, and maybe someone like Graterol be enough? I know Madson is controlled through next year and Doolittle has some options coming up I believe


Polanco by himself is too much in my mind. But the rest of the names don't have much value.
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#37 The Wise One

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 08:34 PM

 

"Yes, your honor, I ran over a few kids with my car -- but think of all the kids I didn't run over! Far from a problem -- I am an asset to this community!"

And is last night another tally in Belisle's "no runs allowed" counter?

Don't know if last night's game was in that total. did not look that closely. The poster asked a question, I gave him an answer. The bit about kids is bull. I would have expected a better argument.  High leverage situations he appears to do his job. Is he perfect in those situations? No What middling reliever is? Has he blown up a game they were behind. Yes. That is less of a concern than blowing games they are leading in. If you are expecting relievers to be Miller like that is totally unreasonable. Reasonable expectations seem to be lacking.  He is a 2 million a year free agent, not a 7 million a year. Should have the Twins spent a little more money?  They could have had better results.  But like Belisle, kids would have been killed


#38 spycake

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 09:01 PM

Don't know if last night's game was in that total. did not look that closely. The poster asked a question, I gave him an answer. The bit about kids is bull. I would have expected a better argument. High leverage situations he appears to do his job. Is he perfect in those situations? No What middling reliever is? Has he blown up a game they were behind. Yes. That is less of a concern than blowing games they are leading in. If you are expecting relievers to be Miller like that is totally unreasonable. Reasonable expectations seem to be lacking. He is a 2 million a year free agent, not a 7 million a year. Should have the Twins spent a little more money? They could have had better results. But like Belisle, kids would have been killed


Sorry for the analogy, it was just a joke. Was navigating around some neighborhood kids today (didn't hit any, for the record!).

Belisle has in fact blown 3 leads this year, in his 32 appearances. And he has given up a run in ~30% of his appearances. And he has a 6.99 ERA.

Jason Grilli just got DFA'd, with a 6.97 ERA, 2 blown saves in 26 appearances, having allowed runs in ~30% of his appearances.

I don't expect perfection, but the fact that he is still on the team is rather unusual given his performance, much less being run out in high leverage situations still, no matter how you slice it.
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#39 spycake

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 09:11 PM

I totally get the argument that one bad game can torpedo a reliever's ERA for while. But Belisle has had multiple bad games, evenly spaced through the season. Capable MLB relievers don't just give up multiple runs in close games every other week. And they certainly aren't capable of "pitching to the score" by only giving up runs when we're already behind.

We should consider ourselves lucky that it hasn't burned us more up to this point and move on. I'm not sure Belisle and Molitor can keep up this jujitsu for much longer.

Edited by spycake, 27 June 2017 - 09:12 PM.

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#40 drjim

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 09:15 PM

Breslow has to be done after tonight right? Brings nothing to the table.
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