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Berrios or Santana?

jose berrios ervin santana
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#21 Pardon My Dinger

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:05 AM

I'm actually going to go Berrios on this one. I "trust the stuff."

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#22 70charger

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:37 AM

Yes

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#23 Doomtints

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:14 AM

 

Which one do you trust more?

Which one would you consider the team's ace?

Which one starts a game 1 right now?

 

All different ways of saying, which of these two guys do you think is the team's best starting pitcher right now?

 

Berrios is the future ace of the team. As the Twins are not likely to go to the playoffs, whoever is the "ace" or "game 1 starter" right now is probably not important to consider. But if we must, it's Santana.


#24 Sssuperdave

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:02 PM

This Berrios run reminds me so much of Liriano in 2006, when he was 10-1 at the All-Star break. He was dominating even more than Johan Santana, but I don't think anyone considered him an Ace yet. I don't think it's possible to be an Ace after half of one season, though it is obviously possible to pitch like one, which Liriano did and Berrios is doing. Unfortunately the ace-level performance didn't stick with Liriano, but I'm sure hoping it will with Berrios!

 

There are a few key differences between the a Berrios/E Santana comparison and a Liriano/J Santana comparison though...

 

  • I think Berrios' success is more repeatable since Liriano's success depended upon torking up the Slider to an unhealthy level, which caused TJ surgery.
  • I'm awed by Berrios' "makeup" (work ethic, committment, attitude). This isn't to take anything away from Liriano, but Berrios seems to stand above the rest on this.
  • E Santana certainly isn't the ace that J Santana was, so the bar for Berrios to clear isn't as high as Liriano's was to be the team's best pitcher. 

So, all that to say I'd still call Santana the Twins best pitcher or ace, but Berrios could change that with a couple more months like he's been having.

 

 

 

 


#25 Doomtints

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:16 PM

Liriano's dominance as a rookie is something we will never see by a pitcher ever again.

 

Berrios is playing well, but his first season is a vastly different story. This is his second season now.

 

Berrios is on a more typical MLB track. He is probably the real deal.


#26 Sssuperdave

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:29 PM

Actually, while Liriano was still a rookie in 06, he did throw 23.2 innings in 05 with a 5.70 ERA.Berrios threw 58.1 innings last year.Obviously more than Liriano, but I don't think the difference in experience is as significant as you make it sound.

 

Though I agree that Berrios is probably the real deal.

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#27 mikecgrimes

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:59 PM

I don't think Santana will start game one over Berrios anymore


#28 twinfan

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 07:51 AM

Santana is #1, Berrios is #2 but I'm hoping Hughes gets back to his early Twins form. He can be better than both of them- despite the home runs. I know. I'm a dreamer.


#29 Jaykay

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 10:02 PM

I'll take Berrios. 

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#30 mikecgrimes

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:45 AM

 

Liriano's dominance as a rookie is something we will never see by a pitcher ever again.

 

 

Not often, but of course we will


#31 Blackjack

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 06:34 AM

I'd still pick Santana over Berrios for a game 1 start just because of experience and being able to handle the pressure and nerves better. Then Berrios in game 2, after he's had time to watch the veteran handle all the hype.


#32 Doomtints

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:23 PM

 

Not often, but of course we will

 

We never saw it happen before Liriano. And we haven't seen it since. 


#33 USAFChief

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 06:57 PM

 

We never saw it happen before Liriano. And we haven't seen it since. 

Bert Blyleven, and many others, say hi.

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#34 h2oface

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 07:01 PM

 

 Since May 7th, his (Santana's) starts were horrible, great, bad, great, very good, horrible, great, very bad. 

 Add another very bad.

Edited by h2oface, 22 June 2017 - 07:04 PM.


#35 h2oface

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 07:03 PM

 

Santana is #1, Berrios is #2 but I'm hoping Hughes gets back to his early Twins form. He can be better than both of them- despite the home runs. I know. I'm a dreamer.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:  I needed a good laugh. Thanks for that.

Edited by h2oface, 22 June 2017 - 07:04 PM.

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#36 Doomtints

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 07:58 PM

 

Bert Blyleven, and many others, say hi.

 

Blyleven, 1971 ERA+ 126

Liriano, 2006 ERA+ 206

Next?


#37 laloesch

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 10:29 AM

Certainly a good problem to have.I like what I've seen from Berrios so far and in the future (if he keeps this up) he's unquestionably the #1 starter in a playoff series in my book.  

 

Right now though you go with experience and the calm cool nature of Santana in that first start, unless of course this downward trend continues.  Then you might have to rethink things.

 

Just illustrates the fact that Falvey and Levine need to go out and acquire a legitimate #3 starter.  Santiago, Hughes and Gibson are much too wild and inconsistent to be dependable #3's.  Perhaps May factors back into this equation next season along with Meija, but that's blind hope at this point.     

Edited by laloesch, 23 June 2017 - 10:30 AM.


#38 h2oface

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:20 PM

h2oface, on 15 Jun 2017 - 3:17 PM, said:

 

Since May 7th, his (Santana's) starts were horrible, great, bad, great, very good, horrible, great, very bad.

 

 Add another very bad.

 

 

Sooooooo..........  add another horrible, and he caused the start of his meltdown with his own throwing error. Poise? Now since May 7th, his (Santana's) starts:

 

horrible, great, bad, great, very good, horrible, great, very bad, very bad, horrible

 

An ace? Not on my team. An all-star. Not even close. One amazingly great month does not an ace nor an all-star make. Santana is what he is.


#39 LaBombo

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 10:19 PM

An ace? Not on my team. An all-star. Not even close. One amazingly great month does not an ace nor an all-star make. Santana is what he is.

 
One thing that Santana is, in a big way right now, is a microcosm of the sand castle season that the Twins are having.  As much fun as they've been to watch, neither Santana nor the Twins have been quite as good as they've appeared to be so far this season.

Edited by LaBombo, 30 June 2017 - 10:55 PM.

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