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Berrios or Santana?

jose berrios ervin santana
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#1 Jaykay

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:26 PM

Which one do you trust more?

Which one would you consider the team's ace?

Which one starts a game 1 right now?

 

All different ways of saying, which of these two guys do you think is the team's best starting pitcher right now?


#2 bluechipper

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:31 PM

I'm a huge Berrios fan, but it's still Ervin Santana for me.

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#3 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:43 PM

Santana all the way. While Berrios has been lock-step with Ervin in performance, he doesn't have much of a track record of consistency. I'll need to see a lot more of Jose before he supplants Santana at the top of the rotation.

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#4 h2oface

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:17 PM

I have moved on to Berrios, on the inconsistency of Santana's last three starts, of which 2 (one I witnessed in LA on Pujols' historic night) were horrible, and very bad. Since May 7th, his starts were horrible, great, bad, great, very good, horrible, great, very bad. Granted, he had a remarkable first month of the season. But Santana does not have the movement on the ball that Berrios has. I think Berrios is our best pitcher, regardless of his short career, and inconsistency. But neither are aces, in my book. Berrios has a chance to be an MLB ace, and not just the teams best pitcher, with time. Santana's career totals (which include 2007/9/12), steroid use, & lack of "electric stuff", will never let him be in my mind. Plus, I was not impressed with him cowardly throwing at Zunino the other day the first pitch after Zunino's 3 run homer on a pitch he offered that was right down the middle. The response was way above the waist, and way too near the head, and I am not a fan a pitcher ever throwing at a batter, anyway. 

Edited by h2oface, 15 June 2017 - 04:43 PM.

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#5 stringer bell

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:50 PM

Santana is the ace, although he's struggled some lately. I'd love to see JO sustain what he's doing and he's got great stuff, but Berríos has a long way to go before I'd consider him the Twins' top pitcher.

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#6 goulik

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:42 PM

The gap is closing but if playoffs or World Series started tomorrow... Santana
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#7 mikecgrimes

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:03 AM

 

Which one do you trust more?

Which one would you consider the team's ace?

Which one starts a game 1 right now?

 

All different ways of saying, which of these two guys do you think is the team's best starting pitcher right now?

 

Santana can go 9 but at this point there's a 25% you would trade in his start for a Gibson start.Santana is the game one guy just because he's a veteran and the game 2 starter is just as valuable, but in a one game playoff I might go Berrios.


#8 Shaitan

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:06 AM

Santana without question. Experience matters.

 

Santana will give you 6-8 innings. Berrios 5-7.


#9 twinsnorth49

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:10 AM

Erv, need to see more of how Berrios handles things when the shrapnel starts flying. Santana is a pretty cool customer and can work his way through a game in a variety of ways when things aren't going well.

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#10 mikecgrimes

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:13 AM

 

 

Santana is the ace, although he's struggled some lately. I'd love to see JO sustain what he's doing and he's got great stuff, but Berríos has a long way to go before I'd consider him the Twins' top pitcher.

 

If i had to predict who would be the better pitcher the rest of the way it's Berrios and probably by a wide margin.I have a tough time giving a 34 year old to much credit for something that happened nearly 2 months ago.That being said Berrios hasn't fully proved himself

 

Santana without question. Experience matters.

 

Santana will give you 6-8 innings. Berrios 5-7.

 

Berrios has averaged 6.64 innings a start Santana 6.78 not a big enough difference to make much of it other then Santana has gone 1 extra inning 2 times

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#11 Mike Sixel

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 08:11 AM

Berrios, and not close. Not even a little close for me.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#12 Shaitan

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 12:27 PM

 

If i had to predict who would be the better pitcher the rest of the way it's Berrios and probably by a wide margin.I have a tough time giving a 34 year old to much credit for something that happened nearly 2 months ago.That being said Berrios hasn't fully proved himself

 

 

Berrios has averaged 6.64 innings a start Santana 6.78 not a big enough difference to make much of it other then Santana has gone 1 extra inning 2 times

The average IP so far isn't really relevant to me. First, Santana has more starts. Second, given their ages, Santana won't get a pitch limit in a postseason game. They'd run him until he's out of gas. They'll never do that to someone Berrios' age. Molitor has pulled Santana early a lot this year (there's a PPress article on it if you care) to "save him for later in the year." Those rules don't apply in postseason.

 

Regardless of IP, I'd still trust Santana more. As I said above, experience matters. Berrios is still pretty raw. Either way, it's a solid 1-2 right now.


#13 USAFChief

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 12:31 PM

I'm just glad Berrios has made the question reasonable.
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I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#14 Loosey

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 12:42 PM

Even when the Twins had Santana and Radke, I think Radke was starting game 1, at least in the early years of Santana.  I assume the veteran calm in game one is a factor.

 

So for now, I say Santana.

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#15 Richard Karn's Beard

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 12:45 PM

I think if the Twins find themselves in the playoffs you go with the pitcher who has consistently been the best pitcher all year.  That obviously could dramatically change between now and then.  If the game is at home I'd lean toward Berrios.  If it is on the road you might go with the experience of Santana.  

 

I believe the risk you run with a young pitcher is them getting knocked around early and then you have big trouble the rest of the series.  High risk, high reward type stuff...but often times the equation of youth + high risk = problems.  It's similar to the mathematical equation that holds true in my life: alcohol + strangers = problems ;)

 

Any way you slice it, it's fun to be talking about these types of scenarios.


#16 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 12:45 PM

 

Santana is the ace, although he's struggled some lately. I'd love to see JO sustain what he's doing and he's got great stuff, but Berríos has a long way to go before I'd consider him the Twins' top pitcher.

Unfortunately, Berrios is one injury away from being the Twins' top pitcher.

 

No Jinx intended

Major League Baseball is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.


#17 Sconnie

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 03:16 PM

If i had to predict who would be the better pitcher the rest of the way it's Berrios and probably by a wide margin. I have a tough time giving a 34 year old to much credit for something that happened nearly 2 months ago. That being said Berrios hasn't fully proved himself


Berrios has averaged 6.64 innings a start Santana 6.78 not a big enough difference to make much of it other then Santana has gone 1 extra inning 2 times

talk about consistency. Santana has 3 complete games and averages 6.78. Berrios has not had a complete game, and averages 6.64. Berrios seems like he has thrown up fewer clunkers this year, but maybe that's selective memory.
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#18 jimmer

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 06:39 PM

 

talk about consistency. Santana has 3 complete games and averages 6.78. Berrios has not had a complete game, and averages 6.64. Berrios seems like he has thrown up fewer clunkers this year, but maybe that's selective memory.

Berrios has had one game (out of seven) where he didn't do well and his FIP is a whole point less than Santana's.  Santana is still the top guy because he's been doing it longer, but Berrios has been impressive.

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#19 Respy

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 06:55 PM

Trust? Santana.  Berrios has looked great, but the sample size is too small.  


#20 kab21

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:52 PM

I actually trust Berrios more but Santana would still start game 1 of a series. Or the play in game. I don't know...

Is 2016 2017 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Looks like we will have to wait another year until a good pitching prospect is actually blocked.




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