Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Kennys Vargas

  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#41 DaveW

DaveW

    Aaron Hicks update (5/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS

  • Members
  • 12,657 posts
  • LocationNYC aka Aaron Hicks Ville

Posted 20 May 2017 - 11:49 AM

The problem is that he isn't sitting 1-2 times a week because he's Joe Mauer. So whether he's been good in May, bad in December, or whatever - his playing time isn't fluctuating to match his production. He's in hell or high water and that is part of the problem.

He has been sitting 1-2 times a week though.

Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#42 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 17,198 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 20 May 2017 - 12:58 PM

 

Yeah I'd rather give the everyday at bats to Vargas. Grossman, id still look into trading him for pitching help IMO

 

 

I agree with who I'd give at-bats to... but not playing a guy kills trade value and kills the player. Trading him at this point would be a giveaway and unfortunately something they may be tempted to do because if he isn't getting playing time.... might as well move on. 

 

By playing him you can demonstrate value. 

 

For clarification.. I am not advocating Vargas every day. At this moment... Sano is the only hitter I consider to be an every day start. I just don't believe Vargas is the guy to get more bench time than others at this moment. 

  • jokin likes this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#43 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 17,198 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:07 PM

 

Yeah, Vargas is a victim of the logjam at 1B/DH, and that's not even including Park yet.

 

He's getting fairly regular at bats, which is okay. It could be more, but it's not like he's riding the bench.

 

I agree that he is getting his chances and I'm reasonable enough to be Ok with some bench time but when he isn't in the starting lineup in 2 of the past 3... I get preemptively concerned because I've seen it before.  

 

I disagree that it's a logjam. You need actual logs for that.

 

Plouffe and Sano was never a log jam... Plouffe didn't perform well enough to be a log. Is Mauer a log?  In my opinion... No. Grossman isn't a log either. 

 

Mauer should play but Mauer is not clearly out performing Vargas. This ain't a log jam... it is something that can managed with a little imagination. 

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#44 DaveW

DaveW

    Aaron Hicks update (5/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS

  • Members
  • 12,657 posts
  • LocationNYC aka Aaron Hicks Ville

Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:41 PM

Basically it's a good problem to have. Nobody in the lineup is really "hitting" themselves out of a roster spot.

Maybe Buxton obviously, but he needs every day at bats.
  • Riverbrian and Dr. Evil like this

Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#45 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,240 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:14 PM

 

Basically it's a good problem to have. Nobody in the lineup is really "hitting" themselves out of a roster spot.

Maybe Buxton obviously, but he needs every day at bats.

 

I agree and that's sort of my logic with Vargas.  Half the DH ABs (3-4x a week) and 1-2 days at 1B a week.  

  • whydidnt, DocBauer, Dr. Evil and 1 other like this

#46 Oldgoat_MN

Oldgoat_MN

    Baseball Games. Life is good!

  • Members
  • 1,722 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:20 PM

It appears that many of these posts take into account that Kennys Vargas is a defensive liability. According to FanGraphs there were 45 players in MLB who played 250 innings or more at 1B in 2016. As far as defensive metrics, Kenny Vargas was the 5th rated 1B in MLB last year among those 45 players.
So far in 2017 49 players have played 50 innings or more at 1B. Mauer is rated 4th best defensively. Vargas is rated 9th best.

Now I believe that defensive metrics are an evolving measure. I don’t necessarily take this as meaning there are only 4 players in MLB better than Vargas at 1B, but using statistics it appears that Kennys is not all that bad.

Actually, it looks like he’s pretty good.

  • jokin, Sconnie and Dr. Evil like this

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet just because it has a name or a photo you recognize.

- Abraham Lincoln


#47 LA VIkes Fan

LA VIkes Fan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 828 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 03:02 PM

 

I agree and that's sort of my logic with Vargas.  Half the DH ABs (3-4x a week) and 1-2 days at 1B a week.  

This i agree with. That should give him 16-24 at bats a week and we'll know if he can break out over the next 4-6 weeks. 

  • TheLeviathan likes this

#48 LA VIkes Fan

LA VIkes Fan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 828 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 03:08 PM

Besides, Mauer is hitting .319/.407/.489 in May. Hard to take him out of the lineup more than once a week. Add in Mauer's better defense and all the rainouts and there hasn't been a lot of opportunity for anyone else. 


#49 Rhino and Compass

Rhino and Compass

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 109 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 03:51 PM

I like Vargas, I like any enormous players, but even at his best, is there something that he provides that the team doesn't have, or doesn't expect to have very soon? I understand he has a good bat, but I think the Twins expect Kepler to add a little power to his repertoire, and Buxton to hit. If they want a DH, there is Park, if he figures it out, or Palka. Basically, they are treating him like a bench bat, because they don't need him to be more than that right now. Could he be? Sure, but even while he grows as a player, I'm not sure the fit is perfect. 

I [heart] to fart


#50 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,240 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 04:04 PM

 

This i agree with. That should give him 16-24 at bats a week and we'll know if he can break out over the next 4-6 weeks. 

 

Yup, basically I'd say get him 20+ ABs a week.  Ride out the slumps and see what you have.


#51 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 7,790 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 20 May 2017 - 04:22 PM

I'm pretty sure the Twins know what they have. An acceptable placeholder as a part time dh/1b/bench bat.

Start him when they have good matchups and to give corner guys days off. Otherwise have him available as a strong bat off the bench late in games.
  • Willihammer and Rhino and Compass like this
Papers...business papers.

#52 Dr. Evil

Dr. Evil

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 720 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:34 PM

IMO there are still plenty of at bats to go around even with Mauer being the everyday starter at 1st.
 
Few things:
-Defensively Mauer is one of the best in the league, when you have Polanco at SS and Sano at 3rd, both of whom are still a little "iffy" it is imperative you have Mauer and his ability to dig out the tough throws. Vargas, while not Ortiz like at 1st base, is closer (at least with my eye test) to below average defensively at 1st.
-As mentioned above, Mauer had a horrendous start to the season, but since then has turned it around: .797 OPS in his last 25 games and a .897 OPS in May, most importantly in his last 25 games or so he is getting on base at a .363 clip.
-I'd prefer that Vargas gets 4-5 starts per week at this stage. 1 at the "cost" of Mauer, 1-2 at the "cost" of Grossman and 1-2 at the "Cost" of Rosario or Kepler (against LHP). Very doable.
 
If the Twins fall 10 games out of the hunt, then yes, he should probably be taking some more at bats away from Mauer, but while they are in contention? nah.

Personally, even though we are currently in contention, considering where we are as a team, I would rather see what Vargas has with every day playing time.
Credited with fixing Buxton's swing June 29, 2017.

#53 Dr. Evil

Dr. Evil

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 720 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:38 PM

Basically it's a good problem to have. Nobody in the lineup is really "hitting" themselves out of a roster spot.
Maybe Buxton obviously, but he needs every day at bats.

As does Vargas.
Credited with fixing Buxton's swing June 29, 2017.

#54 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 15,246 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 20 May 2017 - 08:19 PM

Has anybody actually seen Vargas be a butcher defensively at 1B or is he being judged against Mauer's really good defense or are people making size assumptions? I've watched a lot of games and Vargas isn't a defensive worry in my opinion. He's Ok enough.

I second this. He's not very mobile of course, but IMO has soft hands. He could end up a decent defensive first baseman.

  • Riverbrian and wsnydes like this

Sanity is the playground for the unimaginative.


#55 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 2,230 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:32 PM

If you took the Career Stats of Vargas and the career stats of Dozier and averaged the total to 162 games. There is very little difference in output.

http://www.baseball-...vargake01.shtml

http://www.baseball-...doziebr01.shtml


Yet Vargas gets labelled inconsistent and Dozier is labelled as crucial. This isn't a slam on Dozier... It's support of Vargas.

Grossman, Kepler, Rosario, Buxton, Polanco... I love them all but has any of these players out produced Vargas at the plate? Ever?

Has anybody actually seen Vargas be a butcher defensively at 1B or is he being judged against Mauer's really good defense or are people making size assumptions? I've watched a lot of games and Vargas isn't a defensive worry in my opinion. He's Ok enough.

Paul Molitor has to get out of his way.



I remember one game maybe 10 days or so ago. In the span of 20 minutes Vargas made two plays that it perhaps would not have surprised me to see him not make. One was a catch and tag after Sano made a bare hand pick up and throw. The other I believe was a low throw from the pitcher.

No one expects Vargas to be Doug Mientkiewicz. Just make the plays he should make. If he's as good defensively as say Prince Fielder or Ryan Howard that will probably be good enough because he will hit enough to compensate for it.
  • Riverbrian and wsnydes like this

#56 Shaitan

Shaitan

    Ft Myers

  • Members
  • 484 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:09 PM

 

I agree that he is getting his chances and I'm reasonable enough to be Ok with some bench time but when he isn't in the starting lineup in 2 of the past 3... I get preemptively concerned because I've seen it before.  

 

I disagree that it's a logjam. You need actual logs for that.

 

Plouffe and Sano was never a log jam... Plouffe didn't perform well enough to be a log. Is Mauer a log?  In my opinion... No. Grossman isn't a log either. 

 

Mauer should play but Mauer is not clearly out performing Vargas. This ain't a log jam... it is something that can managed with a little imagination. 

 

Meet tomorrow afternoon's RF: Kennys Vargas.

  • Riverbrian and wsnydes like this

#57 Rhino and Compass

Rhino and Compass

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 109 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:09 PM

It's interesting that the comparisons never lead to Mark Teixeira, who was the last prominent power hitting switch hitter I can think of. Obviously, Teixeira is a pipe dream offensively, but Vargas is probably better at first. 

  • Riverbrian likes this

I [heart] to fart


#58 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 18,460 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:14 PM

Vargas did a great job last night, teeing off on a wicked curveball that any other Twin would have wiffed on.
 
Keep him in the lineup.


I agree, keep him in the lineup, sit Mauer if necessary.

But for the record, the PH HR came on a change up.
  • Riverbrian likes this

I am not the paranoid you're looking for.


#59 stringer bell

stringer bell

    WAR? What is it good for?

  • Twins Mods
  • 7,852 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:21 PM

I recall Tex as being excellent at first base. I don't think Vargas will ever be a great defender, but he's certainly adequate at first. I've seen Mauer make a few plays that I don't think many, if any, current first basemen could make.

 

More on the topic of Vargas--He clogs the bases and won't get any leg hits. He can only play first base, so he really has to hit and get on base. He has to be that much better of a hitter.

  • Riverbrian, Twodogs and wsnydes like this

#60 DaveW

DaveW

    Aaron Hicks update (5/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS

  • Members
  • 12,657 posts
  • LocationNYC aka Aaron Hicks Ville

Posted 21 May 2017 - 04:56 AM

Yeah Tex was elite defensively.
  • wsnydes likes this

Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR