Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

When will they move Robbie Grossman to leadoff?

  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 jaimedude2

jaimedude2

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,037 posts

Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:12 PM

Seems kind of past time that Brian Dozier moves down in the batting order. One of the better on base percentage guys has been Grossman, would like to see him move up to the 1 for awhile.

Everyone know's Dozier likes to bat leadoff but he is just not getting it done from an OBS and RBI perspective.

Batting 120 this year with runners is scoring position by Dozier is hurting the team.

Would like to see the lineup with Grossman at the top. From an on base perspective the three I listed have been the guy's getting on base lately.

1. Grossman.

2. Kepler

3. Mauer

4. Sano

5. Dozier

6. Polanco

7.Rosario

8.Castro

9. Buxton.

On days off to Buxton move Kepler to Center and Grossman to right field.

Split  up the free swingers in Rosario and Buxton  with Castro. 

 


#2 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 17,917 posts

Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:14 PM

Ugh. Dozier. I don't get it. He should be no higher than fourth in the lineup.

  • Danchat and howieramone2 like this

#3 Doomtints

Doomtints

    Doom By Design | Tints By Joe™

  • Members
  • 1,503 posts

Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:17 PM

I imagine they will do it when they have confidence that Dozier can hit reliably anywhere else.


#4 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 17,917 posts

Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:23 PM

 

I imagine they will do it when they have confidence that Dozier can hit reliably anywhere else.

His career OPS in the cleanup spot (183 PAs) is .080 higher than his career OPS in the leadoff spot.

  • ThejacKmp likes this

#5 jud6312

jud6312

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 649 posts

Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:49 PM

I never want to see Robbie Grossman in the field.

 

And I want Kennys Vargas in the lineup more often. 

 

Take from that what you will.


#6 LA VIkes Fan

LA VIkes Fan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 700 posts

Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:22 PM

I think Dozier needs a couple of days off to see if he can reset himself. He looked very over matched against Colorado, especially the at bats against Greg Holland. He might benefit from a day off, followed by coming back in the five or six hole in the order. Dozier if something like 6 for his last 34 and is really not helping us much right now. A day off would do him good.

 

I don't agree with giving Vargas more at bats. I think we have had a long enough look at him these last three years that we know what he is. Not terrible, but very average with the bat, no speed and no defense. He has got to be a plus run producer to provide much value. I really think we need to either promote Park or somebody else from AAA to try being the primary DH or try to find one somewhere else for the team looking to dump a decent bat, no field kind of guy.  We need another run producing bat in the middle of the order. Vargas is not that bat. I guess maybe we could try to kill two birds with one stone by making Grossman the primary DH and leading him off, with  Dozier that other middle of the order bat. I just really question whether Dozier would thrive in a run producing  spot in the order given his problems hitting with runners in scoring position this year.

Edited by LA VIkes Fan, 19 May 2017 - 05:24 PM.


#7 Danchat

Danchat

    Pro Bowl Armchair QB

  • Members
  • 2,139 posts

Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:25 PM

Yeah, I think the Twins are being too insistent on keeping Dozier at the leadoff spot and Mauer at the 3 spot. Dozier just isn't a leadoff guy and should be hitting 4th or 5th ideally, while Mauer should be a #2 vs a righty and on the bench - or at most in the #6 spot.


#8 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 13,240 posts

Posted 19 May 2017 - 08:49 PM

Dozier's end of May is at least better than the abyss he was last year.  But the guy needs to hit 5th or 6th.  

 

Like, yesterday.


#9 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6,778 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 20 May 2017 - 06:09 AM

What's the problem with keeping Dozier at leadoff and why the obsession with moving him? Lineup seems to be working.
  • Dozier's Glorious Hair likes this
Papers...business papers.

#10 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,488 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:05 AM

Getting on base is really the only thing Dozier is actually doing well at this year.
I'm not a fan of Dozier at leadoff long term, but for now I sure don't want his paltry .368 SLG in the middle of the order. So, at least until his bat heats up, I'd leave him at the top.

#11 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 17,917 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:07 AM

What's the problem with keeping Dozier at leadoff and why the obsession with moving him? Lineup seems to be working.

Because Dozier hits home runs while guys like Polanco and Mauer do not.

#12 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6,778 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:22 AM

Because Dozier hits home runs while guys like Polanco and Mauer do not.


Maximize his at bats. Guys at the bottom of the order get on base too.
  • Dozier's Glorious Hair likes this
Papers...business papers.

#13 Old Twins Cap

Old Twins Cap

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 479 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:24 AM

 


I don't agree with giving Vargas more at bats. I think we have had a long enough look at him these last three years that we know what he is. Not terrible, but very average with the bat, no speed and no defense. He has got to be a plus run producer to provide much value.

 

The internet can be so unforgiving sometimes.

 

Go Kennys.

  • adorduan likes this

#14 mikelink45

mikelink45

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 877 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:34 AM

Reading the proposed lineup I realize how weak it really is.  While Dozier takes his normal 1/2 year off at the plate we have only Sano as a real threat in that lineup or the one we are using. Why are they pitching to him at all.  Your lineup is as good as any, but in fact until Dozier gets to his good half of the year we have a lot of interchangeable parts which is not necessarily good.  

 

I read recently that the team is projected to have regression because we have actually scored much less than the opposition despite our current record.  The pitching is holding up as well as it can with the current roster, but the bats are not.  Yes I advocate for Vargas for a few weeks because we need some pop (Come on Dozier - pretend its the half way mark) and Kepler, Buxton, Rosario are not filling their role or expectations, Castro and Giminez cannot hit, Polanco is below expectations at the bat and the guy on first wields a mighty glove.  

 

So how does the team get an infusion of run production?  Hope that last nights homer starts Vargas, get Grossman and Vargas alternating at DH and 1B for the majority of the next month or two.  Beyond that I can not conceive of more answers on the horizon. 


#15 ThejacKmp

ThejacKmp

    Wing Commander

  • Members
  • 1,002 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:40 AM

 

What's the problem with keeping Dozier at leadoff and why the obsession with moving him? Lineup seems to be working.

 

Because things can work better, things being fine should never be good enough. The manufacturing process worked fine and then Henry Ford was like, "Let's try this assembly line thing" and boom, things were better. If you aren't trying to make your process better, you might as well quit.

  • TheLeviathan likes this

#16 ThejacKmp

ThejacKmp

    Wing Commander

  • Members
  • 1,002 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:48 AM

 

While Dozier takes his normal 1/2 year off at the plate.

 

This is categorically untrue. Dozier does not have bad halves, it's a dirty lie.

 

2016: Last year he had two subpar months and four amazing ones. That's not a half season off.

 

2015: Dozier did have a bad second half but that can be chalked up to playing hurt every day.

 

2014: This is where the "half season" myth bases itself. From Dick and Bert to the average fan, everyone says "Dozier had a terrible second half in 2014." It's just not true.  His splits before and after the break in 2014:

 

AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS
.242/.340/.436/.776
.244/.352/.387/.739

 

There's a slight fall off in slugging but an increase in OBP. Overall this is not much of a drop off. The narrative is almost entirely driven by the differences in his home runs, which we focus on too much.Dozier had 18 HR in the first half of 2014 vs. 5 HR in the second half but also had 16 doubles and no triples vs 17 doubles and one triple. As the first half has 100 more at bats than the second half, the real story is a little less pop with some home runs turning into doubles.

 

There's no such thing as Dozier taking half seasons off. He had a slump to being the season in 2016 before taking off over the last 2/3 of the season. He had a bad 2015 second half but that has as much to do with how hard a Twins team gunning for the playoffs rode him when he was banged up because they had no other good options. And in 2014 he had a pretty consistent season with pretty standard OPS's start to finish.

 

Let's not parrot what the pundits say. 

  • Dozier's Glorious Hair likes this

#17 ThejacKmp

ThejacKmp

    Wing Commander

  • Members
  • 1,002 posts

Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:58 AM

 

Reading the proposed lineup I realize how weak it really is.  While Dozier takes his normal 1/2 year off at the plate we have only Sano as a real threat in that lineup or the one we are using. Why are they pitching to him at all.  Your lineup is as good as any, but in fact until Dozier gets to his good half of the year we have a lot of interchangeable parts which is not necessarily good.  

 

I read recently that the team is projected to have regression because we have actually scored much less than the opposition despite our current record.  The pitching is holding up as well as it can with the current roster, but the bats are not.  Yes I advocate for Vargas for a few weeks because we need some pop (Come on Dozier - pretend its the half way mark) and Kepler, Buxton, Rosario are not filling their role or expectations, Castro and Giminez cannot hit, Polanco is below expectations at the bat and the guy on first wields a mighty glove.  

 

So how does the team get an infusion of run production?  Hope that last nights homer starts Vargas, get Grossman and Vargas alternating at DH and 1B for the majority of the next month or two.  Beyond that I can not conceive of more answers on the horizon. 

 

I see some of this but I think this is pretty pessimistic.

 

- Mauer is heating back up and won't be as bad as he was to start the season.

- Ditto with Buxton with the addition that he's poised to take off if he can put it all together.

- Dozier is streaky and has the potential to take it up a notch.

- Grossman just grinds out good at bats. Don't want him to change a thing and want him to play OF against all LH pitching.

- Vargas has too small of a sample for people to give up on him - especially when he's being criticized for a "slow start" that sees him with a .771 OPS.

- Polanco has hit at every single level (including the bigs) and is a guy you can reasonably expect to trend up.

- Kepler has been a little up and down but overall has a 110 OPS+. That's pretty great for a 24 year old in his second big league season. His walk rates portend great things for his future.

- Rosario has been taking strides in his game and while he isn't a middle of the lineup bat, he still has upside.

- Catcher. I can't say much here. Gimenez will hit better than he has but Castro likely won't. There's at least some pop from Castro. They should be batting 9th, that does bug me.

 

The Twins lineup isn't something ferocious like the Red Sox middle of the order or the Cubs unrelenting scariness. But it is a solid lineup that can hurt you in a lot of different ways (tons of speed and a lot of guys with some pop). It's also super young so development is on the Twins' side and it isn't like everyone's hitting. We can expect more from Dozier, Mauer, Buxton, Polanco and perhaps Rosario/catcher.

 

Half full!

  • howieramone2 and spinowner like this