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Article: Jose Berrios Flashes Something Special

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#61 KirbyDome89

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:31 AM

 

Possible? Sure. I don't think anyone should dispute that it was possible.

 

A good idea? I don't think it would have been a good idea.

 

The new front office who didn't have any hands-on experience with Berrios. He was absolutely terrible last season. He barely pitched in Spring Training so the new front office left March still barely seeing the guy. It made all the sense in the world to give that guy a few weeks of observation in Rochester before deciding whether he was MLB material.

 

We don't even know if Berrios was working on anything specific in MiLB so that's another reason why they may have wanted to see him in Rochester for a month.

Unfortunately that possibility seems to be a pretty strong point of disagreement. 

 

I get that, but the people who have the most intimate knowledge of Berrios, the coaching and development staff, are all still in place. Falvey isn't "flying blind," for lack of a better term. To me the WBC/ST thing was an easier sell than simply saying "we want him to spend more time in AAA." The roster decisions during ST suggest they knew who was making the 25 man before the games started. That isn't an indictment or endorsement of the strategy. It's hard for me to imagine that if Berrios had thrown another 10 innings to match Mejia's total for the spring the decision would have been different. 


#62 drjim

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:51 AM

Unfortunately that possibility seems to be a pretty strong point of disagreement.

I get that, but the people who have the most intimate knowledge of Berrios, the coaching and development staff, are all still in place. Falvey isn't "flying blind," for lack of a better term. To me the WBC/ST thing was an easier sell than simply saying "we want him to spend more time in AAA." The roster decisions during ST suggest they knew who was making the 25 man before the games started. That isn't an indictment or endorsement of the strategy. It's hard for me to imagine that if Berrios had thrown another 10 innings to match Mejia's total for the spring the decision would have been different.


I think merely counting innings is a mistake, there is also the time with coaches, executing a plan, all of that.

A team will go into spring with a plan a, but it strikes me as unlikely they decided before camp that Mejia would get first crack if one of the starters went down. He earned the spot. If Berrios was there the whole time he could have done the same.
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#63 KirbyDome89

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:19 PM

 

I think merely counting innings is a mistake, there is also the time with coaches, executing a plan, all of that.

A team will go into spring with a plan a, but it strikes me as unlikely they decided before camp that Mejia would get first crack if one of the starters went down. He earned the spot. If Berrios was there the whole time he could have done the same.

He has had more time with those coaches than Mejia at every level of the organization . 

 

If Mejia wasn't option A then he likely was option B. I'll give the FO the benefit of the doubt and say that decision wasn't made based on 14 innings pitched in ST. 

 

 


#64 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 05:24 PM

 

Unfortunately that possibility seems to be a pretty strong point of disagreement. 

 

I get that, but the people who have the most intimate knowledge of Berrios, the coaching and development staff, are all still in place. Falvey isn't "flying blind," for lack of a better term. To me the WBC/ST thing was an easier sell than simply saying "we want him to spend more time in AAA." The roster decisions during ST suggest they knew who was making the 25 man before the games started. That isn't an indictment or endorsement of the strategy. It's hard for me to imagine that if Berrios had thrown another 10 innings to match Mejia's total for the spring the decision would have been different. 

Sure, lots of coaches had hands-on experience with Berrios but the last time they saw the guy was when he closed out that horrible 2016 season. And they didn't get a good look at him in spring so their last chance to really examine the guy was when he was terrible and obviously doing things wrong.

 

Again, I find it hard to fault them that they took the cautious approach in that situation.


#65 KirbyDome89

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:41 PM

 

Sure, lots of coaches had hands-on experience with Berrios but the last time they saw the guy was when he closed out that horrible 2016 season. And they didn't get a good look at him in spring so their last chance to really examine the guy was when he was terrible and obviously doing things wrong.

 

Again, I find it hard to fault them that they took the cautious approach in that situation.

I'm just not putting that much stock into a couple weeks in ST. Like I said above I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that the 5th spot didn't come down to a couple weeks and a handful of innings of exhibition baseball. Based on other decisions they made during ST I would say it didn't. 

 

It isn't just that Berrios didn't start the year with the Twins. I disagree with him not starting the season in MN but I can at least understand it. Going to a 4 man rotation and giving Tepesch a start to keep him down was inexplicable. 


#66 HitInAPinch

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:06 AM

 

Another thing we've lamented in past years is how the front office so often put guys in situations where failure was likely. Alex Meyer springs to mind and the ridiculous call-up he got two years ago (I think it was two years ago, anyway). Aaron Hicks is another example. Maybe even Buxton in the third spot this season is an example (but it was fixed so quickly that it's hard to complain too much about it).

 

Whereas this front office gave Berrios every chance to succeed instead of fail. They let him go to the WBC because he wanted to do so. They put him in Rochester and let him dominate, something he probably needed after his disastrous rookie season. Then, just 40 days into the season, they called him back to Minnesota and he's killing it up here. Berrios looks like a different pitcher today. Maybe he would have been that pitcher that on Opening Day but given how little he pitched in March and how bad he was in 2016, I'm skeptical that would be the case.

 

Letting a promising young prospect get his feet back under him before exposing him to MLB opposition after a disastrous rookie campaign isn't something we should be criticizing.

 

Now, if it was July 1st and Berrios had just made his first start after tearing Rochester to pieces for three months, that's something to complain about. But Jose made his first start on May 13th.

I don't recall much about the Hicks promotion.  But clearly remember the abomination in Houston, with both Berrios and Meyer.  Travesty, is the best word I've got. Politest, fits too ;)

 

And I also recall the days of and outfield of Darren Mastroiani, Logan Schaffer and Shane Robinson. The promotion of Buxton was way too early.  And WAY too needed.  Self-inflicted desperation.  

 

On the daily players, I'm feeling very confident.  Offense and defense much better this year.  The pitching is a product still in development, and that's OK.  OK, because there is a person in charge now that knows pitcher development, with a track record.

 

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#67 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:06 AM

 

I'm just not putting that much stock into a couple weeks in ST. Like I said above I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that the 5th spot didn't come down to a couple weeks and a handful of innings of exhibition baseball. Based on other decisions they made during ST I would say it didn't. 

 

It isn't just that Berrios didn't start the year with the Twins. I disagree with him not starting the season in MN but I can at least understand it. Going to a 4 man rotation and giving Tepesch a start to keep him down was inexplicable. 

That's fair. I hope they had a good reason for the Tepesch start because from the outside, it was puzzling.


#68 ashburyjohn

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 08:52 AM

That's fair. I hope they had a good reason for the Tepesch start because from the outside, it was puzzling.

My explanation is that the front office has a self-imposed discipline, and they stuck to it. Had Berrios not thrown a relative clunker on April 19 in suburban Atlanta, he might have been up sooner. Two straight high-quality AAA starts afterward must not have been their metric, but the next one was.

 

Management always preaches "consistency", and two in a row doesn't cut it.

 

That's my reverse-engineering solution to the puzzle. :) I always prefer to try that, than to conclude "their idots".

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#69 KirbyDome89

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 10:55 AM

 

I hope they had a good reason for the Tepesch start because from the outside, it was puzzling.

MN nice?


#70 Doomtints

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:56 AM

"Berrios was the youngest Twins pitcher with 11 strikeouts in a game since a 22-year-old Francisco Liriano did so in 2006, and he was the first Twins pitcher to reach that mark within his first 16 career games since Bert Blyleven on Aug. 4, 1970 at age 19."

 

-- Sarah Langs, ESPN Stats & Information

 

Some of the fears around Berrios forgot his age and the normal development cycle of any good pitcher.


#71 steve

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:21 AM

When is Berrios most likely to pitch during the upcoming homestand? Would it be Memorial Day Monday or Tuesday night?

 

Gotta see this guy work.

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