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Gordon / Vielma Platoon

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#1 mudcat14

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:24 AM

Can anyone explain why the Twins are having Engelb & Nick rotate between 2B/SS at AA?  At 22-23, Vielma already has a near full AA season under his belt where he hit better than expected (.271) anyway.  Everyone knows that once Dozier moves on, that either Vielma, Gordon or perhaps Palacios will force Polanco to 2B.  Why isn't Vielma taking the AAA starts instead of Benji Gonzales so that each can play everyday at SS?  I'd much rather develop polished depth at SS than worry about a fallback or possible utility role for them at this point.  

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#2 goulik

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:05 PM

Vielma profiles more as a defense first utility infielder on a good team than as an every day shortstop. Polanco and Vielma have more range than Gordon so if Polanco can handle short, Vielma might be 2B when Dozier is traded until Gordon takes over. Also,either May take over short pushing polanco to 2nd when polanco is deemed not solid enough a glove at SS
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#3 mudcat14

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 03:59 PM

 

Vielma profiles more as a defense first utility infielder on a good team than as an every day shortstop. Polanco and Vielma have more range than Gordon so if Polanco can handle short, Vielma might be 2B when Dozier is traded until Gordon takes over. Also,either May take over short pushing polanco to 2nd when polanco is deemed not solid enough a glove at SS

 

I've heard that Polanco may have more range than Gordon, but the every other metric favors both Nick & Engelb over Jorge at SS.  I haven't read anything anywhere to suggest that Polanco could force either of them over to 2B as regulars.  My point is that both project as superior defenders to Polanco.  Both should be playing SS.  Not Benji Gonzales.

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#4 Seth Stohs

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 05:22 PM

Yeah, I like their strategy this year. Vielma has the potential to be a decent batting average hitter, so I have no problem with him spending a half season in Chattanooga. And both are legit shortstop prospects, and there's also a chance that both will need to play second base in the big leagues. So, I like what they're doing. 

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#5 yarnivek1972

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 06:30 PM

Vielma spent 2/3 of of last year in AA. He should be in AAA. He should have started 2017 in AAA. His glove is already MLB ready and that is what is important to his future.

Vielma is a long shot prospect as an everyday player. I don't mind both players getting time at 2b and ss. But Vielma is a year and a half older than Gordon. As it stands now, Vielma might get a call up if an infielder gets hurt. He should be facing AAA pitching.

Edited by yarnivek1972, 13 May 2017 - 06:31 PM.


#6 goulik

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 09:19 PM

I've heard that Polanco may have more range than Gordon, but the every other metric favors both Nick & Engelb over Jorge at SS.  I haven't read anything anywhere to suggest that Polanco could force either of them over to 2B as regulars.  My point is that both project as superior defenders to Polanco.  Both should be playing SS.  Not Benji Gonzales.


Not disagreeing at all with any of that. Problem is, Polanco is here, playing shortstop and doing a good job of it this season despite his past deficiencies. If he regresses to his past norm, he will get moved to 2B in favor of Gordon but I am seeing the possibility that he earns the right to stay at short

#7 Rosterman

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 09:53 PM

We should hold off and see what mid-season brings. If the Twins aren't advancing prospects throughout the system, and playing guys that will never be on the 40-man...I'll start crying. Of course, the Twins don't want to push or add anyone to the 40-man before they have to, it seems, at times. 

 

I guess have to see what the draft brings and where everyone is pushed when the short-season teams

 

Now if the Twins can figure out how to keep top prospect pitching off the disabled list.start to play.

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#8 drivlikejehu

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 10:54 PM

Vielma's ceiling is utility infielder. His batting average will disintegrate against MLB pitching and defense. 

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#9 jimbo92107

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:55 PM

Flexibility in the infield makes complete sense. With the middle infield looking good on the mlb club, the most responsible thing the minors coaches can do is get their SS and 2B guys ready to play either position, even a little work at 3B if possible. That way, if somebody on the Twins goes on the DL, the team can call on whichever "middle infielder" is playing the best overall ball at the time. 

 

Another reason is the growing prevalence of shifted defenses. Today I saw Miguel Sano field a grounder where Dozier usually plays. No reason why minor leaguers shouldn't learn to play the whole infield. 

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#10 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 07:47 AM

I wonder if both of them starting at AA has anything to do with the front office challenging them both to become the next middle infielder in the promotion hierarchy.

 

If you promote Vielma to AAA, then what do you do with Gordon in June? Demote Vielma? Create a AAA platoon?

 

Right now, Gordon is pretty clearly winning that fight. The organization has to be thinking he's at the top of the list when we get to promotion season in June or July.

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#11 birdwatcher

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 08:20 AM

 

I wonder if both of them starting at AA has anything to do with the front office challenging them both to become the next middle infielder in the promotion hierarchy.

 

If you promote Vielma to AAA, then what do you do with Gordon in June? Demote Vielma? Create a AAA platoon?

 

Right now, Gordon is pretty clearly winning that fight. The organization has to be thinking he's at the top of the list when we get to promotion season in June or July.

 

 

Yeah, I think the assessment probably is that Vielma is a long shot to even become a MLB utility guy, but they want to give him his best shot, and that involves reps at short. Gordon OTOH is already one of the very best offensive players in the Southern League and will be further fast-tracked to AAA soon enough. Offensively, Vielma might get exposed at the next level.

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#12 Mike Sixel

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 04:40 PM

I live how everyone had any idea what this FO will do on promotions, given how few we have seen.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#13 yarnivek1972

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:11 PM

 

I wonder if both of them starting at AA has anything to do with the front office challenging them both to become the next middle infielder in the promotion hierarchy.

 

If you promote Vielma to AAA, then what do you do with Gordon in June? Demote Vielma? Create a AAA platoon?

 

Right now, Gordon is pretty clearly winning that fight. The organization has to be thinking he's at the top of the list when we get to promotion season in June or July.

 

 

I doubt they move Gordon up to AAA that fast.  He won't be 22 until after the season ends. Maybe if he still has an OPS around .850.  He's never shown the extra base power he has shown so far this year.  Will it hold up? Remains to be seen.  Could simply be a product of gaining muscle with age - you know like we all expected would happen with that guy that wears # 7.

 

Meanwhile, Vielma will be 23 in 5 weeks.

 

To answer what to do if both are in AAA, I would say the answer is let guys like Leonardo Reginatto and Bengie Gonzalez, both age 27, or Tommy Field, age 30, go.


#14 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:40 PM

 

I doubt they move Gordon up to AAA that fast.  He won't be 22 until after the season ends. Maybe if he still has an OPS around .850.  He's never shown the extra base power he has shown so far this year.  Will it hold up? Remains to be seen.  Could simply be a product of gaining muscle with age - you know like we all expected would happen with that guy that wears # 7.

 

Meanwhile, Vielma will be 23 in 5 weeks.

 

To answer what to do if both are in AAA, I would say the answer is let guys like Leonardo Reginatto and Bengie Gonzalez, both age 27, or Tommy Field, age 30, go.

It's possible they don't move Gordon that quickly but if they promote him in late June or early July, he will have accumulated ~300 PAs in Chattanooga. That's a pretty typical promotion schedule for a guy who is OPSing over .800 and was a first round draft pick (of course, this assumes he will continue to dominate the level).

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#15 mudcat14

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 06:30 PM

 

 

If you promote Vielma to AAA, then what do you do with Gordon in June? Demote Vielma? Create a AAA platoon?

 

 

I say create a platoon then, when it's necessary.  My point is, it's not necessary now.  Vielma should be in AAA getting Gonzalez' innings and Gordon should be focusing almost exclusively at SS.  As was posted, he's only 21 and already more than holding his own in AA.  The overwhelming consensus off opinion seems to be that both are better suited to play at SS and Polanco at 2B.  Why waste valuable learning time preparing for the alternative?   

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#16 Yoke

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:21 AM

They just moved Vielma up to Rochester.

 

 

Edited by Yoke, 15 May 2017 - 09:27 AM.

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#17 yarnivek1972

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:18 AM

 

They just moved Vielma up to Rochester.

 

 

 

 

The irony is that he is in his worst "slump" of the young season.  1 for his last 12, albeit with 4 walks.

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#18 mudcat14

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 04:53 PM

 

They just moved Vielma up to Rochester.

 

 

 

Clearly, the Twins' braintrust values my opinion.  Of course now the bottom will drop out on both Vielma & Gordon.

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#19 ShouldaCouldaWoulda

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:09 PM

It is early, no doubt, but Polanco is currently 2nd in the MLB in DRS for SS's, behind Russell. Not sure if this is just sss, overall improvements by Polanco, or better placement and shifting by the new regime....probably a little bit of all the above. Pretty impressive though.

 

I think getting Gordon comfortable around the diamond now is better than doing it on the fly. Didn't seem to bother Russell playing 2B for a year, or others. 

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#20 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:28 AM

 

It is early, no doubt, but Polanco is currently 2nd in the MLB in DRS for SS's, behind Russell. Not sure if this is just sss, overall improvements by Polanco, or better placement and shifting by the new regime....probably a little bit of all the above. Pretty impressive though.

 

I think getting Gordon comfortable around the diamond now is better than doing it on the fly. Didn't seem to bother Russell playing 2B for a year, or others. 

The ideal situation is to move Dozier after the season (provided the Twins stay in it this season, ruling out a deadline deal) and keeping the middle infield open for 2018. Let Polanco and Gordon fight over who gets short and second.

 

I don't really care who wins, only that the best defender get the premium position.

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