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Orioles rushing Machado?

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#1 gunnarthor

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:34 AM

BA ranked Machado #11 prospect coming into the season and he'll certainly stay in the top 10 in their next ranking. The 20 year old shortstop hit .266/.352/.438 in the Eastern League (same league as Hicks) but is getting promoted to the majors to play third base.

Heyman reports another GM said: "I still think it's too early to recall him,'' that GM said. "Just because he's better than Wilson Betemit doesn't mean it's the right move for the kid.''

Interesting to see what happens. I don't think it's too big a deal, if/when he struggles you can send him back to AA/AAA. On the other hand, he only played two games at third in the minors and now he's supposed to step in and play it at the ML level? That might be a bad idea.

#2 Seth Stohs

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:53 AM

I think it's dumb... It's not like he was hitting or fielding great at AA. That said, the O's are a horrible baseball team that somehow finds itself still competing in the AL East... or at least for a wild card.

#3 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 10:52 AM

The Os would be a powerhouse right now in the central... just saying. I'm not sure it's the best move either though.

#4 DPJ

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:04 AM

The O's are winning with smoke and mirrors right now, hell their pythagorean W/L record is 51-60. As for Machado, I don't really have a problem with it. Let the kid get his feet wet and get a taste of the majors. The O's aren't going anywhere so who really cares. I doubt a rough 30 games is gonna destory the kid.

#5 mini_tb

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 12:13 PM

I am absolutely shocked that Reynolds and Betemit stink. Who could have seen that one coming? I'm not really a fan of the move, but at the same time, the O's are probably pretty tired of trotting out those same 2 bozos on a daily basis while still somehow staying in the AL Wild Card race. It's a bold move for sure. Good for them shaking things up I guess. It just seems like Machado will be a marginal improvement at best at this point of his young career, but it doesn't seem like something worth speeding up the arbitration clock over. If Boston wouldn't have had waiver claim priority over the Orioles, would the O's have gone after Valencia?

#6 Pius Jefferson

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 03:33 PM

I'd be more concerned about the O's rushing Dylan Bundy to the majors. He's been promoted to AA after posting 2.98 ERA with 63 strikeouts in 54.1 ip in A+ league.

#7 whydidnt

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 04:11 PM

Fangraphs had an interesting article on this today. The author's take was that it wasn't a bad move because Betemit has been so bad in the field, and that even though the Orioles have been winning ugly, those wins still count, so they still have about a 20% of making the playoffs. Also indicated that Machado was the 18th best offensive player in the EL this year, so he hasn't totally been over matched. The EL is tough on hitters and Bowie, the Orioles affiliate, is the toughest on hitters in the leauge. If he falls on his face they can start him back at AAA next year and go from there. I personally would like to see the Twins be more aggressive in moving guys up like this from time to time. Not just to the Majors but also a level here or there in the minors. I know Sano's K rate is high and his average is mediocre in Beloit, but I still think that's due to some extent because nobody wants to pitch to him. Would have loved to see them move him to Ft. Myers this year to see how he did against better pitching. At some point we need to get him used to seeing decent breaking stuff.

#8 DPJ

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 04:34 PM

I personally would like to see the Twins be more aggressive in moving guys up like this from time to time. Not just to the Majors but also a level here or there in the minors. I know Sano's K rate is high and his average is mediocre in Beloit, but I still think that's due to some extent because nobody wants to pitch to him. Would have loved to see them move him to Ft. Myers this year to see how he did against better pitching. At some point we need to get him used to seeing decent breaking stuff.


So you're saying since no one will pitch to him he's hacking away at stuff outta the zone. Even though I 100% disagree with that, if that's the case I pray the Twins would bench him and tell him to stay within the zone.

As far as the Twins being more aggressive, HE'S 19!!!! He'll be in the FSL league when most kids his age are sophomores in college.

#9 Seth Stohs

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:27 PM

I watched four Snappers games in Beloit last weekend. So yes, it's a small sample size. However, I definitely did not see pitchers trying to pitch around Sano. They were throwing him strikes. I think he walked once in those games and it was a long at bat. He saw quite a few curveball/sliders. He was generally able to lay off those down and away, and he just missed some in the strike zone. I think having Rosario in front of him, and especially having Vargas behind him should help as well. Sano is where he should be.

#10 jokin

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:38 PM

So you're saying since no one will pitch to him he's hacking away at stuff outta the zone. Even though I 100% disagree with that, if that's the case I pray the Twins would bench him and tell him to stay within the zone.

As far as the Twins being more aggressive, HE'S 19!!!! He'll be in the FSL league when most kids his age are sophomores in college.


Seth and others had this discussion two months ago. Last year in Rookie League, Sano had a BB% rate of 7.8% and this year its nearly doubled to 15.1% while his K% is about the same. The folks who had seen the Snappers play stated that the league appeared to be pitching around Sano. And there wasn't much hitting talent surrounding him in the order, especially magnified with Rosario and Vargas missing big chunks of the season.

Agreed on rushing him, the Twins definitely don't want to start the arb clock prematurely, especially with his continuing problems at 3B- making it problematic about where he ultimately ends up playing in the field.

#11 jokin

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:43 PM

I watched four Snappers games in Beloit last weekend. So yes, it's a small sample size. However, I definitely did not see pitchers trying to pitch around Sano. They were throwing him strikes. I think he walked once in those games and it was a long at bat. He saw quite a few curveball/sliders. He was generally able to lay off those down and away, and he just missed some in the strike zone. I think having Rosario in front of him, and especially having Vargas behind him should help as well. Sano is where he should be.


Writing while you posted. You state with more up-to-date accuracy of what I tried to get across in my previous post.

Do you see Sano or Rosario playing both A+/AA next year?

Is their fielding improved enough to say they are on track towards becoming ML 2B and 3B? Or are the Twins stretching this out and hoping it can still happen?

#12 Seth Stohs

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

Do you see Sano or Rosario playing both A+/AA next year?

Is their fielding improved enough to say they are on track towards becoming ML 2B and 3B? Or are the Twins stretching this out and hoping it can still happen?


I can see Sano and/or Rosario playing in FM and NB next year. Obviously they would have to play well in the first half to move up in the second half. Both could, and frankly, they wouldn't be lesser prospects if they spent the whole 2013 season in FM.

Defensively, I think they both did OK when I watched. Clearly more room for improvement, for sure, but I thought that, especially Sano, looked much better than two months ago. I saw enough to keep them there longer.

#13 jokin

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:28 PM

I can see Sano and/or Rosario playing in FM and NB next year. Obviously they would have to play well in the first half to move up in the second half. Both could, and frankly, they wouldn't be lesser prospects if they spent the whole 2013 season in FM.

Defensively, I think they both did OK when I watched. Clearly more room for improvement, for sure, but I thought that, especially Sano, looked much better than two months ago. I saw enough to keep them there longer.


Thanks for the encouraging words, especially on Sano. Rosario's just coming back from fracturing his face, as is Vargas from his situation. I see Sano's OBP and SLG #s have really jumped in July and Aug from the lows in May/June. It would be nice to see all 3 developing enough to be knocking at the door in Sep '14.

#14 Thrylos

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:40 PM

Some teams want to have their best 25 people in the majors. Even if that means sitting them on the bench. This does not work well for their "development" but works well for winning at the major league level. Different priorities. The Twins do not subscribe to that philosophy for sure. If Trout and/or Harper were in the Twins organization they would be in Beloit or maybe Fort Myers if they were lucky...
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#15 Top Gun

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 07:35 PM

Let the kid play, he is so so good!

#16 whydidnt

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:44 PM

So you're saying since no one will pitch to him he's hacking away at stuff outta the zone. Even though I 100% disagree with that, if that's the case I pray the Twins would bench him and tell him to stay within the zone.

As far as the Twins being more aggressive, HE'S 19!!!! He'll be in the FSL league when most kids his age are sophomores in college.

And guys like Machado and Harper are in the Majors at about the same age, and Mike Trout is a year older and an MVP candidate. We've heard about his prodigious talent since they signed him three years ago, some guys need to be pushed, and I think Sano is one of those players. Guys don't get promoted by never swinging the bat. The fact that his walk rate has doubled this year means that he DOES understand the strike zone, but is getting a lot of balls outside the zone. What is the harm in moving him up to the next level at this point?

#17 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:31 PM

Some teams want to have their best 25 people in the majors. Even if that means sitting them on the bench. This does not work well for their "development" but works well for winning at the major league level.

Different priorities.

The Twins do not subscribe to that philosophy for sure. If Trout and/or Harper were in the Twins organization they would be in Beloit or maybe Fort Myers if they were lucky...

Having the best 25 in the majors is not 'The Twins way'......club does not want anyone in the majors till 25
Different philosiphy......frustrating tho

#18 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:38 PM


If Trout and/or Harper were in the Twins organization they would be in Beloit or maybe Fort Myers if they were lucky...


You can't possibly believe that garbage you just spewed.

#19 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:43 PM

Also to combat the earlier comments: Morneau and Mauer were both fast tracked to the majors. I can't really think of one player in the minors that should definitely be on the majors at this point: Arcia/Hicks- Already have 3 very good OF. Parmelee- Already have 3 Very good OF, a good 1B and a good DH. Hendriks- possibly, but has struggled in two trips to the mahors this year, team wants him to work on some stuff in the minors. Sano- Way to raw. I also can't really think of any player they let rot in the minors either in the recent history. Guys like Plouffe and Span were simply late bloomers.

#20 DPJ

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:17 AM

The fact that his walk rate has doubled this year means that he DOES understand the strike zone, but is getting a lot of balls outside the zone. What is the harm in moving him up to the next level at this point?


So whydidnt on a crappy Twins forum says he's swinging at balls outside the zone even though multiply reports from people say he's just been feed a steady diet of breaking balls and is still learned to stay back on them. Breaking news you can still strike out on pitches in the zone.

You keep him at Beloit cause for all his prodigious, he's not Harper, Trout or Machado. He's not as good as those guys and the numbers say so. If he still killing low-A I would say promote him, but he's having issues with contact their. NTM what's the point of promoting him and getting him to the majors to start his arb clock for a bad team?