Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Next Roster Move: Pitcher for Batter, but Whom?

  • Please log in to reply
165 replies to this topic

#41 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,444 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:26 AM

Garver is interesting but he's hitting 350 OPS points over his career numbers in only 25 PAs.

 

I'll just wait this one out and see what happens before I consider him ready to face MLB pitching.


#42 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 7,754 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:27 AM

 

... Mitch Garver is hitting .389/.560/.556 in Triple A. 

 

He's also only played 30 games total at AAA, and this is a 7 game sample.

 

He'll contribute soon enough.

Edited by drjim, 19 April 2017 - 10:28 AM.

Papers...business papers.

#43 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 7,754 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:29 AM

I'm also concerned if they called up Garver and he struggled there wouldn't be a good enough backup plan.

Papers...business papers.

#44 Oldgoat_MN

Oldgoat_MN

    Baseball Games. Life is good!

  • Members
  • 1,719 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:38 AM

I think Tonkin will be successful, but not under Molitor. No reason to keep him just to mess with his career. Breslow hasn't shown anything to write home about, but that is part of the problem with coming north with this many pitchers. Was it one bad outing? How can you tell when five in the BP have thrown less than 6 innings?

 

Set Tonkin free. Bring up Vargas. I prefer Park, but he is still on the DL and we need to see what Kennys can do in MLB anyway. He would allow Mauer to sit against LH pitchers and be a bat off the bench. A bat off the bench not named DanSan.

  • Platoon likes this

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet just because it has a name or a photo you recognize.

- Abraham Lincoln


#45 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 22,478 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:39 AM

 

I'm also concerned if they called up Garver and he struggled there wouldn't be a good enough backup plan.

 

I'm actually good with giving him a month or two in AAA, but the "he has to catch everyday" argument falls apart, if you think about Castro starting next year also.

  • Oldgoat_MN likes this

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#46 goulik

goulik

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,405 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:42 AM

 

I just don't see a scenario where the Twins call up Park when they have Vargas and Palka already on the 40 man roster.

 

Why shuffle the roster when you have similar guys with equally large questions already at your disposal?

 

Give Vargas his shot and don't hesitate to cut him if the results aren't good. Then move on to other guys with question marks.

With my scenario, you have 3 open spots on the 40. Not a big deal to add Park back on the 40 man for a call up.

 

Both of them are above .800 OPS at Rochester (And so is Paulsen) so either is fine. It is fair to point out that Vargas has double the at bats, I just think long term, Park will pan out and I have lost confidence in Vargas ever panning out.

  • LA VIkes Fan likes this

#47 Tom Froemming

Tom Froemming

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 610 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:45 AM

 

He's also only played 30 games total at AAA, and this is a 7 game sample.

 

He'll contribute soon enough.

He's also 26.

 

I'm actually good with giving him a month or two in AAA, but the "he has to catch everyday" argument falls apart, if you think about Castro starting next year also.

Right, and to that point, he's never really caught everyday, which I wrote about in August. He's played a disproportionate amount of 1B and DH compared to other catching prospects on his way up the ranks.

 

At the time I wrote that, it really bothered me because the team's catching situation was such a mess. Now that Castro is gonna be here for three years, Mitch looks like the perfect compliment as a backup

  • Oldgoat_MN, goulik and rghrbek like this

#48 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,444 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:46 AM

 

With my scenario, you have 3 open spots on the 40. Not a big deal to add Park back on the 40 man for a call up.

 

Both of them are above .800 OPS at Rochester (And so is Paulsen) so either is fine. It is fair to point out that Vargas has double the at bats, I just think long term, Park will pan out and I have lost confidence in Vargas ever panning out.

My overarching point is that it's hard to reserve 40-man space for three players who profile so similarly (and not in a good way).

 

Give them their swings in logical order and discard each as they fail. Then add another similar guy to replace the failing player and try again.

  • goulik, Vanimal46 and Tom Froemming like this

#49 goulik

goulik

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,405 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:48 AM

 

My overarching point is that it's hard to reserve 40-man space for three players who profile so similarly (and not in a good way).

 

Give them their swings in logical order and discard each as they fail. Then add another similar guy to replace the failing player and try again.

You are making way too much sense...

  • Tom Froemming likes this

#50 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 7,754 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:49 AM

 

He's also 26.

 

Right, and to that point, he's never really caught everyday, which I wrote about in August. He's played a disproportionate amount of 1B and DH compared to other catching prospects on his way up the ranks.

 

At the time I wrote that, it really bothered me because the team's catching situation was such a mess. Now that Castro is gonna be here for three years, Mitch looks like the perfect compliment as a backup

 

26 is not old for a catcher to debut. Tough position.

  • Oldgoat_MN and Tom Froemming like this
Papers...business papers.

#51 mikelink45

mikelink45

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1,094 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:13 AM

Lets see them be more creative.  Three weeks and then make some major shifts - starting rotation, bench, and bullpen.  There is a lot of room to move a lot of bodies around and it would be refreshing if they did.  We have half of a bullpen and have our rotation that could be replaced and should be.  We have a strange bench and its time Santana moved on and one less pitcher was on the staff so two players could move in here and give Molitor some strategic room.  

 

And I bet I am not the only fan who would like to see some creative chopping and moving. 

  • Oldgoat_MN likes this

#52 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 774 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:16 AM

I don't understand the push for Adrianza. The utility IF role is already covered. They need a 4th OFer and another bat on the bench. 

  • Mike Sixel, Oldgoat_MN, Platoon and 1 other like this

#53 Tom Froemming

Tom Froemming

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 610 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:20 AM

 

26 is not old for a catcher to debut. Tough position.

Touche, good point. I'd prefer to see a slugger like Vargas or Park (once healthy) come up, but if those guys don't do it for you and you're searching for another option for fourth bench guy, why not Garver? He's already on the 40-man.


#54 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 7,754 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:23 AM

I imagine they are still really hesitant to cut loose an arm and I can't really blame them. Outside of Berrios there's not a guy in AAA right now that's clearly ready to contribute to the pen or the rotation. Maybe Tepesch or Wimmers as a long man.

 

If Chargois gets back healthy, or Burdi/Melotakis keep it up this equation could change.

Papers...business papers.

#55 LA VIkes Fan

LA VIkes Fan

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 828 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:41 AM

 

I don't understand the push for Adrianza. The utility IF role is already covered. They need a 4th OFer and another bat on the bench. 

Adrianza is nice for now, but he's important to give the team the flexibility to trade Dozier at the deadline. If Dozier is traded, he becomes the SS with Polanco moving to 2B or the UTL with Escobar either at SS or 2B. He will get picked up if DFA'd so they have to roster him to keep him. Gordon isn't ready this year and Goodrum can'r field the positions. 


#56 killertwinfan

killertwinfan

    Elizabethton

  • Members
  • 34 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:45 AM

I think Breslow will be the first to go and will likely be replaced by a position player, but ultimately as other pitchers come off the DL, Tonkin will follow.

 

The Twins are in a tough spot.  My belief is that if you have Grossman on your bench you can't keep 13 pitchers.  He is so poor defensively and we need another candidate for the OF on the bench.  Right now Palka seems to be the only OF ready or performing in Rochester. Granite would ultimately be a possibility.

 

On top of that Mauer is in a very bad place and may struggle to bat north of .250 this season with little or no power.  AB's against lefties need to go to the next first baseman.  (Park, Vargas or Hague). 

 

Lastly, I think Hughes has been give way too much credit. Batters are hitting him hard.  I like what he has tried to do but I don't think his pitch movement is sharp enough at his current velocity.  Berrios should take that spot. We'll need Duffy to eat up innings in the bullpen.  

 

 

 

 

  • Platoon likes this

#57 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 774 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 12:11 PM

 

Adrianza is nice for now, but he's important to give the team the flexibility to trade Dozier at the deadline. If Dozier is traded, he becomes the SS with Polanco moving to 2B or the UTL with Escobar either at SS or 2B. He will get picked up if DFA'd so they have to roster him to keep him. Gordon isn't ready this year and Goodrum can'r field the positions. 

If Polanco moves to 2B then Escobar can play SS and the Twins can go find another defensive SS who can't hit on the waiver wire. Carrying two utility IF is redundant. There is no reason for this team to waste a 25 man roster spot given the need for a 4th OFer and another bat on the bench.  

  • Oldgoat_MN likes this

#58 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 2,160 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:23 PM

Ben Paulsen is probably a more complete player than Palka, and he has MLB experience.  Palka also has 3 errors already.  As an OFer.  The entire Twins team I think only has 4.  Paulsen isn't hitting LHP this year, but that is likely sample size.  He hit them fine last year.  But I consider Paulsen a replacement for Rosario, not the bat to add when a pitcher is removed.  I give Rosario about 3-4 more weeks.  If he hasn't shown improvement by then (by which time he will also be close to the magic 1000 PA plateau as well), he can be cut IMO.

 

I would wait with Garver.  Primarily because he does still have some developing to do as a catcher.  He's certainly going to be the guy called up if someone gets hurt.  Plus, I like having Gimenez on the roster, especially with a short bench.  He's already filled in at third a couple times and can play first.

 

I think the guy to call up when the Twins go to 12 pitchers is Vargas.  Of anyone in AAA, he still has by far the highest ceiling.

 

For me, the 40 man roster is a non-issue.  When Adrianza is healthy, they will either activate him or DFA him.  If he's activated, they will DFA Danny Santana.  They could let them both go and bring up Shuck to be a back up OFer or wait until Zach Granite is healthy - but he is still young enough to be a fringe prospect so the Twins probably want him to play everyday. That opens 1 spot, or possibly 2. The Twins still have Engelb Vielma on the 40 man who is considered an excellent defensive infielder.  I was surprised he started the season in AA. There is no reason to keep JR Murphy on the 40 man.  He isn't going to get called up.  He did finally get a base hit a couple days ago.  There is zero risk in removing him.  Odds are no one claims him.  If someone does, it's not like career AAA catchers are hard to find.  That's another potential spot.  A lot of signs indicate that the pitcher who will be out will be either Justin Haley or Michael Tonkin since they are in a redundant role.  Either way, that's another removal from the 40 man.  And if the Twins do indeed cut bait with Rosario, that would be another.


#59 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,443 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:51 PM

Things I hate about Twins (and modern to an extent) Baseball

1) 3 catchers - if Garver comes up then Gimenez goes down or is cut - not worth doing it right now - Garver will be up at some point

2) 13 pitchers 

3) an entire bench made up of utility IF/OF/C - Escobar can at least hit some (.681 career OPS) but that still isn't very impressive

 

If this move is made and the Twins bench consists of Gimenez - Escobar - Adrianza - DSan then it is barely better than carrying 13 pitchers.

Since Park is on the DL then send me Palka or Vargas. Probably Palka right now and mix him into the OF some with Buxton and Rosario struggling.

 

Cutting Santana is also fine. Why he can't be semi-competent at the plate and in the field is baffling but we have seen enough.

Is 2016 2017 the year that a good pitching prospect is truly blocked by 5 good pitchers in the starting rotation? 

Looks like we will have to wait another year until a good pitching prospect is actually blocked.


#60 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,444 posts

Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:26 PM

I give Rosario about 3-4 more weeks. If he hasn't shown improvement by then (by which time he will also be close to the magic 1000 PA plateau as well), he can be cut IMO.

So you want to cut a 25 year old center field-caliber defender with a career 95 OPS+ because he had a bad month to start the season. And you want to replace this player with... Ben Paulsen?

Utter madness.

(fun fact for you kids at home: Eddie Rosario has both a higher career WAR and OPS+ than Ben Paulsen)

  • Mike Sixel and snepp like this