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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:05 AM

Not to mention all the drugs done in the 50s and 60s that people conveniently try to pretend weren't PEDs.....in the overly pretentious way that only baseball fans can do.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#22 gunnarthor

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:49 AM

 

Not to mention all the drugs done in the 50s and 60s that people conveniently try to pretend weren't PEDs.....in the overly pretentious way that only baseball fans can do.

Sure but did greenies require your competition to alter their bodies to compete?  I truly hate the greenies = steroids argument for a number of reasons.  And roid use wasn't as uniform as greenies were/are.  So maybe Brad Radke was taking some greenies but he wasn't taking horse steroids when he was competing against ARod.


#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:06 AM

 

Sure but did greenies require your competition to alter their bodies to compete?  I truly hate the greenies = steroids argument for a number of reasons.  And roid use wasn't as uniform as greenies were/are.  So maybe Brad Radke was taking some greenies but he wasn't taking horse steroids when he was competing against ARod.

 

We'll disagree. Why one would be ok, and one not, is beyond me. Either you are worried about "honest" competition w/o drugs, and player safety, or you aren't. IMO, of course. And it wasn't just greenies. And steroids were actively used in the 70s, we just didn't know/care...

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#24 drjim

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:36 AM

 

We'll disagree. Why one would be ok, and one not, is beyond me. Either you are worried about "honest" competition w/o drugs, and player safety, or you aren't. IMO, of course. And it wasn't just greenies. And steroids were actively used in the 70s, we just didn't know/care...

 

I'm generally libertarian in allowing peds into sports, but Greenies are not even close to as effective as Steroids on performance. Way different ballgame.

 

But I do agree we have no idea the extent of PEDs in previous generations, one of the reason that I don't get too sanctimonious about current drug use. Plus, baseball is by far the most effective and serious professional sport - but there are limits to what they can do.

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#25 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 08:40 AM

 

We'll disagree. Why one would be ok, and one not, is beyond me. Either you are worried about "honest" competition w/o drugs, and player safety, or you aren't. IMO, of course. And it wasn't just greenies. And steroids were actively used in the 70s, we just didn't know/care...

One physically alters you while the other helps you recover from ****ing all night. Greenies don't turn journeymen like Dan Naulty into MLers. And greenies were used by everyone while not everyone was using horse steroids.


#26 biggentleben

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:16 AM

 

Sure but did greenies require your competition to alter their bodies to compete?  I truly hate the greenies = steroids argument for a number of reasons.  And roid use wasn't as uniform as greenies were/are.  So maybe Brad Radke was taking some greenies but he wasn't taking horse steroids when he was competing against ARod.

 

Yet Tom House was introduced to steroids in the early 1970s in Atlanta by Gary Gentry, who talked about how they were used openly in the clubhouse of the 1969 "Miracle" Mets, so even steroids have been around for decades before they got as well known in the late 80s. The big reason the roids actually were more known in the 80s/90s is that baseball finally started using weight training to activate the roids and see guys over-inflate in size.

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#27 biggentleben

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:17 AM

 

One physically alters you while the other helps you recover from ****ing all night. Greenies don't turn journeymen like Dan Naulty into MLers. And greenies were used by everyone while not everyone was using horse steroids.

 

What do you think most guys take HGH for...the primary benefit of HGH is recovery.

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#28 gunnarthor

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:49 AM

 

Yet Tom House was introduced to steroids in the early 1970s in Atlanta by Gary Gentry, who talked about how they were used openly in the clubhouse of the 1969 "Miracle" Mets, so even steroids have been around for decades before they got as well known in the late 80s. The big reason the roids actually were more known in the 80s/90s is that baseball finally started using weight training to activate the roids and see guys over-inflate in size.

So what? We've already had the "players used greenies" excuse in this thread and now you've added the "there were steroids in the 70s" excuse. I think you're next excuse is "there's no evidence Bond used" or "steroids don't make you hit the ball better" excuse. It gets old.

Sure, some players used in the 70s. It wasn't the epidemic it was in the Selig era nor did it create an unlevel playing field.


#29 drjim

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:09 AM

So what? We've already had the "players used greenies" excuse in this thread and now you've added the "there were steroids in the 70s" excuse. I think you're next excuse is "there's no evidence Bond used" or "steroids don't make you hit the ball better" excuse. It gets old.
Sure, some players used in the 70s. It wasn't the epidemic it was in the Selig era nor did it create an unlevel playing field.


You sure about that last point?
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#30 gunnarthor

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 01:03 PM

 

You sure about that last point?

Yep


#31 biggentleben

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:32 PM

 

Yep

 

You should check that. Like I said, the inflation you saw in size had a ton to do with the training changes across the league. The first full time strength and conditioning coach wasn't hired in the league until nearly 1990 (1989), and the teams in the league before 1993's first expansion (and the subsequent 1998 one that really sent offense into the stratosphere) didn't make the position universal until the mid-90s. Getting lifting on top of those steroids does a ton.

 

Steroids were rampant, though they were known under different names at that time, in the 1960s and 1970s.

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#32 drjim

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:47 PM

Yep


I think you're being comically naive, but fair enough.
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#33 biggentleben

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:39 PM

Leaving this here:

 

https://calltothepen...ended-80-games/

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#34 gunnarthor

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:49 PM

A few thoughts, it's nice that Delabar is admitting to it it but he gave it with a few caveats. He claims that there were trace amounts of the banned substance and it was in an over the counter supplement. He then says he's never tried to use supplements. So, eh. 

 

From the milb wite up of his suspension:

 

Delabar, 33, tested positive for Ostarine, a performance-enhancing substance in violation of the program, according to MLB. Ostarine, also known as Enobosarm, is considered a "selective androgen receptor modulator," or SARM, which was banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency in 2008. It's used in the treatment of muscle wasting and osteoporosis, and several professional athletes have been linked to it, including former IBF super-middleweight boxing champion Lucian Bute and UFC fighters Tim Means and Tom Lawlor.

 


#35 biggentleben

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 08:31 PM

 

A few thoughts, it's nice that Delabar is admitting to it it but he gave it with a few caveats. He claims that there were trace amounts of the banned substance and it was in an over the counter supplement. He then says he's never tried to use supplements. So, eh. 

 

From the milb wite up of his suspension:

 

Delabar, 33, tested positive for Ostarine, a performance-enhancing substance in violation of the program, according to MLB. Ostarine, also known as Enobosarm, is considered a "selective androgen receptor modulator," or SARM, which was banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency in 2008. It's used in the treatment of muscle wasting and osteoporosis, and several professional athletes have been linked to it, including former IBF super-middleweight boxing champion Lucian Bute and UFC fighters Tim Means and Tom Lawlor.

 

Yep, I describe what the substance is as well in my article. Also something that could end up in a supplement in the mixing process quite easily. The PBS investigation (and their documentation) were very compelling on how easily banned elements could get into supplements.

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