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Starling Marte

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#1 Twinsbar107

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 01:11 PM

http://m.mlb.com/new...opicId=27118122


#2 bluechipper

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 01:39 PM

Wow that's a shocker. 


#3 gunnarthor

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 02:13 PM

I'm more surprised that testing caught someone 


#4 a-wan

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:34 PM

Supposedly the positive test was a drug that is usually injected, so he could plead the "badB-12" injection route.


#5 biggentleben

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:47 PM

 

I'm more surprised that testing caught someone 

 

I'd have to dig up the tweet, but it was something like 15 All-Stars have been caught since official testing began. That's a fairly high rate of the game's best players, let alone the others caught.

 

MLB's testing program is more extensive than any major sport.

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#6 Taildragger8791

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:18 PM

 

I'd have to dig up the tweet, but it was something like 15 All-Stars have been caught since official testing began. That's a fairly high rate of the game's best players, let alone the others caught.

 

MLB's testing program is more extensive than any major sport.

 

As evidenced by the fact that almost no notable NFL or NBA players ever get busted despite their athletes looking like real life supreheros.

Edited by Taildragger8791, 18 April 2017 - 11:18 PM.


#7 HitInAPinch

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:26 AM

"Marte said "neglect and lack of knowledge" led to the "mistake" and apologized for his actions."

 

yeah, right....

It's not my fault !


#8 gunnarthor

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:13 AM

 

I'd have to dig up the tweet, but it was something like 15 All-Stars have been caught since official testing began. That's a fairly high rate of the game's best players, let alone the others caught.

 

MLB's testing program is more extensive than any major sport.

It's more extensive but that's a pretty low bar.  


#9 biggentleben

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:31 PM

 

It's more extensive but that's a pretty low bar.  

 

You can use 9/10th of the things on MLB's banned list to do your job better. No one's going to test you for those and tell you that you cannot use them because they're legal substances sold and purchased legally.

 

Obviously, the "dumb" argument to quickly follow is that "no one's paying me $2M to do MY job!", which is all well and good, but no stadiums are full of fans paying $50 each to watch you enter data into your computer either.

 

I think anyone entering the discussion on PEDs needs to take a listen to the Shawne Merriman interview on Jonah Keri's podcast. The ridiculousness of the dialogue on the media/public side and the reality of what players really are restricted on are two incredibly different worlds, and certainly that is never portrayed.

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#10 Taildragger8791

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:43 PM

 

You can use 9/10th of the things on MLB's banned list to do your job better. No one's going to test you for those and tell you that you cannot use them because they're legal substances sold and purchased legally.

 

Obviously, the "dumb" argument to quickly follow is that "no one's paying me $2M to do MY job!", which is all well and good, but no stadiums are full of fans paying $50 each to watch you enter data into your computer either.

 

I think anyone entering the discussion on PEDs needs to take a listen to the Shawne Merriman interview on Jonah Keri's podcast. The ridiculousness of the dialogue on the media/public side and the reality of what players really are restricted on are two incredibly different worlds, and certainly that is never portrayed.

 

I'm not commenting on the fairness or reasonableness of the drug testing program, but my understanding is a lot of legal supplements are generally banned because they can mask the use of the actual illegal PEDs. Allowing them creates an easy loophole that would just be mercilessly abused otherwise.


#11 gunnarthor

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:40 PM

 

You can use 9/10th of the things on MLB's banned list to do your job better. No one's going to test you for those and tell you that you cannot use them because they're legal substances sold and purchased legally.

 

Obviously, the "dumb" argument to quickly follow is that "no one's paying me $2M to do MY job!", which is all well and good, but no stadiums are full of fans paying $50 each to watch you enter data into your computer either.

 

I think anyone entering the discussion on PEDs needs to take a listen to the Shawne Merriman interview on Jonah Keri's podcast. The ridiculousness of the dialogue on the media/public side and the reality of what players really are restricted on are two incredibly different worlds, and certainly that is never portrayed.

There's a lot of issues about PEDs and frankly the thing that bothers me most about MLB's proposal is that the owners are not punished at all. The BS Mitchell report placed the blame for PED use on both the players and the owners but the player loses the money, takes the PR hit and the team doesn't suffer. Hell, the Yankees were openly hoping Arod would get caught to end his contract. And if teams aren't punished, then players will always cheat because if they don't someone else will. Look at all those poor kids from the Dominican. If I was in their shoes, I'd inject everything in the hopes of making a better life for my family. That said, the players stupidly signed onto this agreement and Marte wasn't using the right masking agents this time and was caught.

 


#12 biggentleben

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:44 AM

 

I'm not commenting on the fairness or reasonableness of the drug testing program, but my understanding is a lot of legal supplements are generally banned because they can mask the use of the actual illegal PEDs. Allowing them creates an easy loophole that would just be mercilessly abused otherwise.

 

Yes, and no.

 

A number of them don't mask anything at all, but they produce steroid-lite effects, or they metabolize into something that shows up on a test the same way that a steroid or another illegal PED would metabolize in the body.

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#13 biggentleben

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:48 AM

 

There's a lot of issues about PEDs and frankly the thing that bothers me most about MLB's proposal is that the owners are not punished at all. The BS Mitchell report placed the blame for PED use on both the players and the owners but the player loses the money, takes the PR hit and the team doesn't suffer. Hell, the Yankees were openly hoping Arod would get caught to end his contract. And if teams aren't punished, then players will always cheat because if they don't someone else will. Look at all those poor kids from the Dominican. If I was in their shoes, I'd inject everything in the hopes of making a better life for my family. That said, the players stupidly signed onto this agreement and Marte wasn't using the right masking agents this time and was caught.

 

Great example of that - ARod, Bonds, Clemens, Manny going to have difficulty getting into the HOF.

 

Francona, Torre, Bochy all near locks for HOF managing them while they were assumed to be using, along with Bochy overseeing Ken Caminiti when he was at his absolute worst in San Diego.

Edited by biggentleben, 20 April 2017 - 08:49 AM.

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#14 Thrylos

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:55 AM

 

Great example of that - ARod, Bonds, Clemens, Manny going to have difficulty getting into the HOF.

 

Francona, Torre, Bochy all near locks for HOF managing them while they were assumed to be using, along with Bochy overseeing Ken Caminiti when he was at his absolute worst in San Diego.

 

Torre is in.So is the guy who started it all with the A's, Tony LaRussa

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#15 Taildragger8791

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:01 AM

 

Yes, and no.

 

A number of them don't mask anything at all, but they produce steroid-lite effects, or they metabolize into something that shows up on a test the same way that a steroid or another illegal PED would metabolize in the body.

 

...which creates one of the loopholes I was referring to. While not a "masking agent" in the sense it hides the illegal PED from a positive test, if legal substances are inseparable from illegal ones on a test then it gives the athlete an opportunity to challenge the tests and get off the hook.


#16 biggentleben

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:15 AM

 

...which creates one of the loopholes I was referring to. While not a "masking agent" in the sense it hides the illegal PED from a positive test, if legal substances are inseparable from illegal ones on a test then it gives the athlete an opportunity to challenge the tests and get off the hook.

 

They aren't once you do deeper testing, but at a base level they show up the same, and the issue with going deeper is that the owners would have to give up some in order to get the level of testing that would separate legal substances from the illegal (yes, odd, but it is a negotiation, and much of the initial steroid use was highly encouraged and even promoted by the ownership end, so the players are wanting some buy back for the fact that it's all players getting blamed still on the steroids). Owners were not willing to offer up anything for deeper testing, and therefore, it leaves the game with a further shadow that could be eliminated with better testing.

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#17 gunnarthor

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:49 AM

 

Great example of that - ARod, Bonds, Clemens, Manny going to have difficulty getting into the HOF.

 

Francona, Torre, Bochy all near locks for HOF managing them while they were assumed to be using, along with Bochy overseeing Ken Caminiti when he was at his absolute worst in San Diego.

Honestly, I don't care about the HOF.  What bothered me the most was that the Yankees got a benefit from ARod's suspension - his salary was off the books for that missed season and they came very close to lowering their tax payoff that other teams receive from them.  Essentially, the Yankees were financially aided by the suspension while the other teams lost (some) revenue.  There should be some sort of penalty to the team or the money should still be paid but go to the MLB player's charity or something.  Just not stay in the owner's pocket.


#18 Mike Sixel

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:56 AM

Putting aside my thoughts on bans....

 

It does seem wrong to me that only players are punished. One of our favorite teams had a manager cover up use, if the stories are true....

 

I'm not sure it is true teams are never punished. I'd argue Pitts is definitely going to feel the pain this year.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#19 gunnarthor

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:31 AM

 

Putting aside my thoughts on bans....

 

It does seem wrong to me that only players are punished. One of our favorite teams had a manager cover up use, if the stories are true....

 

I'm not sure it is true teams are never punished. I'd argue Pitts is definitely going to feel the pain this year.

Yeah, I should have phrased it better.  The team certainly loses out when a good player is suspended and they can't use the saved money on something else to replace him but ownership isn't punished.  And if it's a bad player, it's a win for the team/owner.


#20 benny

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:50 AM

Banned substances in baseball have been an ongoing issue for Major League Baseball. Several players have come forward in recent years to suggest that drug use is rampant in baseball. David Wells stated that "25 to 40 percent of all Major Leaguers are juiced. José Canseco stated on 60 Minutes and in his tell-all book juiced that as many as 80% of players used steroids, and that he credited steroid use for his entire career. Ken Caminiti revealed that he won the 1996 National League MVP award while on steroids. In February 2009, after reports emerged alleging that Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003, a year in which he was American League MVP, he admitted to having used performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) between 2001 and 2003. Mark McGwire, dogged by allegations of PED use for years, admitted in January 2010 that he had used steroids and human growth hormone off and on for over a decade, including in 1998 when he set the single-season home run record.