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Hicks for Murphy trade: 14 months later

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#21 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:34 AM

 

Hicks has hit more home runs in the first two weeks this season then santana likely will hit in the next 5 years.

Hicks >>>>>>>>>>> Santana and it's not even close, don't be ridiculous Lev.

While their career trajectories could change from this point forward, the biggest difference I see between Hicks and Santana is that Santana was actually good at one point.

 

Also lucky, but still good.

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#22 Brandon Warne

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:34 AM

This should come with a small sample size trigger warning.

 

Either way, I hated the deal at the time, but I at least understood it. Finding a catcher is really difficult, and I actually sort of like the idea of finding an unheralded guy stuck behind a great player (McCann) and a great prospect (take your pick, Sanchez or even Romine). 

 

The process was right here. The Twins sold high on Hicks and bought low on Murphy. It just hasn't worked out. But ask Yankee fans with half a brain, and they'd say the same thing. 

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#23 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:36 AM

Whether the trade was good or bad, Hicks has 31 PAs on the season. He has swung at just 30% of the pitches thrown his way.
 
I'll just go ahead and wait this one out before forming an opinion.


Hey, give Hicks credit! He's realized swinging a bat at a baseball for hits isn't his specialty. Standing there and hoping might give him a shot at cracking the elusive 70 OPS+ barrier...

#24 drjim

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:36 AM

 

I wouldn't say he is "due" anything. He struggles consistently making contact and his failure to produce effectively is a pretty established trend.

I get people wanting a better 4th outfielder, and I agree, but Hicks is as putrid as board whipping boy Santana and yet this thread is lauding his brilliance. Amazing.

 

Hicks at least plays a pretty solid defensive OF at all positions, and has shown a little from the right handed side, which would fit nicely with the current OF alignment.

 

Again, I think this will cause more angst than it is worth, as 4th OFs can be found elsewhere, but he would absolutely be a better fit right now.

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#25 blindeke

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:38 AM

This debate would be a lot more interesting if JR Murphy wasn't a complete zero.

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#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:38 AM

Also, Hicks (unsurprisingly) has hit all three of his home runs in Yankee Stadium.


#27 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:40 AM

 

Hey, give Hicks credit! He's realized swinging a bat at a baseball for hits isn't his specialty. Standing there and hoping might give him a shot at cracking the elusive 70 OPS+ barrier...

Right now, somewhere in the bowels of Target Field, Joe Mauer is studying film of Hicks' 2017 season, trying to figure out how to shave 8% off his swing rate.

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#28 mikelink45

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:46 AM

It doesn't really mean anything, but I thought this was a fun posting.  We should reflect on past trades and decisions.  Lets look at the end of the season.  I hope Ryan is still in the minors and Garver is in the majors and I would love to see Hicks do well no matter how it reflects on the team.

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#29 Mike Sixel

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:59 AM

So, now we can't talk about past trades? I've never understood people coming into a thread saying it was a stupid thread. don't want to talk about it, read about it? don't come...

 

I was thinking about this trade the other day. I still think it is two bad players for each other. I always felt the Twins were overly impressed by a couple ABs by Murphy against their terrible pitching staff. 

 

Hicks and Buxton....anyone notice a trend?

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#30 Doomtints

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:01 AM

Bringing up Hicks having a good week is trolling. Not the epic trolling that the imminent Dozier trade thread was, but trolling nonetheless. I give this one a D-, since this one has been done so many times before.

 

What sucks in my view is that fans claim Buxton has turned the corner every time he has a good week, just like what was done to Hicks. They both look equally lost at the plate. With Buxton's ceiling I'm all for "giving him time" but we gotta stop claiming guys are fixed after a couple of weeks. Twins pundits did not learn the lesson that Hicks gift wrapped for them. Adjusting to the majors is a process, not an event. No young player is 100% after one good week or even one good month.

 

Hicks (and Buxton, for that matter), proved to me that the "tools" conversation is a bit daft. Hitting is the essential tool, if that "tool" is failing miserably the other tools do not matter. In his era, Michael Jordan was considered to be the best athlete in all of sports. He certainly was very "toolsy." How did his MLB career pan out?

 

It might be a good time to review the threads just a couple of weeks ago about how Buxton was about to be a power hitter. You'll find the same crazy stuff in old Hicks threads I'm sure. After that, try to resist throwing your computer out the window. :D

Edited by Doomtints, 17 April 2017 - 08:07 AM.

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#31 DaveW

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:02 AM

Also, Hicks (unsurprisingly) has hit all three of his home runs in Yankee Stadium.


Check Home Run tracker, all three would have been hit out of Target Field as well.

Again, itwas a dumb trade at the time and remains a dumb trade now.

Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#32 DaveW

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:07 AM

So, now we can't talk about past trades? I've never understood people coming into a thread saying it was a stupid thread. don't want to talk about it, read about it? don't come...

I was thinking about this trade the other day. I still think it is two bad players for each other. I always felt the Twins were overly impressed by a couple ABs by Murphy against their terrible pitching staff.

Hicks and Buxton....anyone notice a trend?

Yup re: Hicks and Buxton, Both were rushed and it messed with development. I really think this team lacks some good hitting coach(es) at the major league level.

Always knew that the Twins gave up too early on Hicks, and I never understood why. It's like when they traded Span before they needed to as well. Lord knows I would have rather had Hicks in the OF then Grossman and Sano.... that was what the worst part was, trading Hicks and then putting Sano in the OF. Which set sanos development at 3B back and forced us to rush Buxton
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Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#33 gunnarthor

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:09 AM

The complaining on this site is incredible.  The Twins ditched a guy who was blocking several of their most promising prospects and posted negative WAR last year.  Did people think we were going to get a star back for him?  We got a flawed player back.  Fortunately, our flawed player is younger, isn't blocking anyone and can work out things in the minors.  

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#34 DaveW

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:22 AM

The complaining on this site is incredible. The Twins ditched a guy who was blocking several of their most promising prospects and posted negative WAR last year. Did people think we were going to get a star back for him? We got a flawed player back. Fortunately, our flawed player is younger, isn't blocking anyone and can work out things in the minors.

Grossman, Santana and Sano all got a ton of games in the OF last year (Santana already has 3 this year)

How was Hicks blocking a bunch of great OF again?

The idea that they just HAD to trade Hicks is false.
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Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#35 Doomtints

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:27 AM

 

Grossman, Santana and Sano all got a ton of games in the OF last year (Santana already has 3 this year)

How was Hicks blocking a bunch of great OF again?

The idea that they just HAD to trade Hicks is false.

He was out of options, I believe.

 

As to who he was blocking, way to be selective with your names. Let's review the OF talent last year.

 

- Sano - he was blocked by Plouffe at 3rd.

- Max Kepler - out of options.  Do you lose Kepler to keep Hicks?  Puh-lease!

- Rosario.  Better than Hicks.

- Buxton.  At his worst, he's the same as Hicks.

 

That's a full outfield and you're not even getting into Grossman and Santana yet.

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#36 lukeduke1980

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:35 AM

 


- Buxton.  At his worst, he's the same as Hicks.

Separate topic but oh my goodness.

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#37 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:36 AM

 

Hicks and Buxton....anyone notice a trend?

 

The only relevance Hicks has is this question right here.

 

Otherwise he's just not a very good baseball player.  We traded him for another guy that isn't a very good baseball player.

 

That isn't a trade either team wins or loses because either way you're stuck with a bad baseball player.

Edited by TheLeviathan, 17 April 2017 - 08:37 AM.


#38 DaveW

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:36 AM

He was out of options, I believe.

As to who he was blocking, way to be selective with your names. Let's review the OF talent last year.

- Sano - he was blocked by Plouffe at 3rd.
- Max Kepler - out of options. Do you lose Kepler to keep Hicks? Puh-lease!
- Rosario. Better than Hicks.
- Buxton. At his worst, he's the same as Hicks.

That's a full outfield and you're not even getting into Grossman and Santana yet.


That's the thing: there was no reason for Sano to be blocked at third. Not trading plouffe (even in season) was a complete failure.

Hicks at the very least would make a pretty damn compelling platoon guy with Rosario at this moment. That has plenty of value IMO, there still is the chance he can figure it out and reach his potential as well as an average to above average overall CF.

The fact that the Twins back up Of currently is Santana and Grossman is all we need to know to see they have plenty of space avail for someone who can hit lefties and play gray Defense.
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Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#39 DaveW

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:38 AM

The only relevance Hicks has is this question right here.

I think the Twins made the same mistake with Hicks, they prematurely traded away their CF depth and rushed him. Ditto to what they did with Buxton.

All that does is waste a year or two of service time while both were clearly over matched early on iMO.

Aaron Hicks 2017 stats so far (5/17/17): .326 BA .464 OBP .616 SLG 1.080 OPS  7 HR 19 RBI 6 SB 22 BBs 1.8WAR
 


#40 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:40 AM

 

I think the Twins made the same mistake with Hicks, they prematurely traded away their CF depth and rushed him. Ditto to what they did with Buxton.

All that does is waste a year or two of service time while both were clearly over matched early on iMO.

 

They may have rushed him, but that doesn't make Aaron Hicks a good baseball player now.  Because he's not.  You did the same thing with Hicks last year when he had a nice 3-4 day run and how'd that turn out?

 

If the biggest complaint was the team needs a better fourth outfielder that hits lefties - they come pretty affordably on the FA market. And you can pretty easily find one that will out OPS .617 too.

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