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Article: Twins Minor League Report (4/13): Berríos Dazzles in Buffalo

jose berrios tyler wells matt hague
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#21 ThejacKmp

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:13 AM

 

If golf were a 3 man team game I could easily see someone saying "Hey, Spieth, stop working on your driver and irons. We need you to putt and you can't do all three"

 

I really like the concept of golf as a three man team game. Especially if two teams played at the same time and time was involved. You had your driver, your middle guy and your short guy. Driver in the box, middle guy halfway down the fairway and the putter close. The two drivers hit first and from there it's first a number of strokes thing but all ties are broken by who finished first.

And you could have them have to switch roles every hole.

 

This sport would be way better than actual golf.

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#22 chpettit19

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:26 AM

It's going to be hard for anyone not actually at the games watching him throw to determine if Berrios is ready. Him putting up dominate stat lines doesn't mean there's nothing left for him to work on at AAA. Walk numbers and strike/ball ratios are good and all, but don't tell the complete story. AAA hitters are going to chase more pitches than the guys in the bigs will and get themselves out more. This is a situation where we need to trust the Twins' internal scouts and coaches to determine when he's truly controling his pitches and not just throwing it down the middle or completely missing the zone. His stuff is major league ready, his control wasn't even close last year. Stat lines are only going to tell us so much at this point.

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#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:35 AM

 

It's going to be hard for anyone not actually at the games watching him throw to determine if Berrios is ready. Him putting up dominate stat lines doesn't mean there's nothing left for him to work on at AAA. Walk numbers and strike/ball ratios are good and all, but don't tell the complete story. AAA hitters are going to chase more pitches than the guys in the bigs will and get themselves out more. This is a situation where we need to trust the Twins' internal scouts and coaches to determine when he's truly controling his pitches and not just throwing it down the middle or completely missing the zone. His stuff is major league ready, his control wasn't even close last year. Stat lines are only going to tell us so much at this point.

 

The same ones that said he was ready last year?

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#24 chpettit19

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:38 AM

 

The same ones that said he was ready last year?

Different people leading things with a different set of standards and different directions given to their people. My guess would be that with this front office Berrios would have been up last year, but we would have been in the pen. Not getting his brains bashed in every 5th day. But point taken. It's not easy to trust this organization yet. But pitching is supposed to be Falvey's thing so I'm hoping for some good things to come.


#25 Mike Sixel

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:49 AM

 

Different people leading things with a different set of standards and different directions given to their people. My guess would be that with this front office Berrios would have been up last year, but we would have been in the pen. Not getting his brains bashed in every 5th day. But point taken. It's not easy to trust this organization yet. But pitching is supposed to be Falvey's thing so I'm hoping for some good things to come.

 

Its' the same coaches and scouts.The only delta is the two at the top.

 

Berrios is too good for the minors. He might work on a thing or two, but no one will know anything until he's been in the majors for 2 years. IMO, he should be in MN as soon as Mejia has his next bad start.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#26 Dantes929

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:49 AM

 

The same ones that said he was ready last year?

I also look at his control as a benchmark more than anything else since we believe he has good stuff. I would rather he give up 3 homers with no walks than no runs with 6 walks. He probably was ready last year but started bad and then pressed and then listened to 8 different guys telling him what he was doing wrong.  I think getting into a groove in the minors is a good and hopefully short lived thing.  They are not robots.  i remember a couple times Liriano and Crain were just a mess in the majors and went down to figure it out.   

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#27 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:55 AM

I don't remember Molly saying anything about "things Berrios needs to work on," it was about getting stretched out. Heck, we all have things we need to work on. :)
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#28 Linus

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:24 AM

His first start had a pretty low percentage strikes which is the main thing they are watching. Interesting piece in THE WSJ about Strasburg Syndegaard and others pitching exclusively from the stretch as it simplifies mechanics and doesn't diminish their velocity. Yet the twins added to his windup last year. Makes you wonder...

#29 ShouldaCouldaWoulda

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:24 AM

I've unfortunately realized that there are some guys who excel at things that work great in the minors, but don't translate well in the majors. Kinda like a dominant spread-QB in college doesn't translate to the NFL. LHP soft tossers and flat fastball guys seem to be the case for baseball.


#30 Tom Froemming

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:32 AM

FWIW Berrios is working on some mechanical adjustments. On the Red Wings' pregame show just now he said he's trying to ditch that wrist curl thing he does with his pitching hand behind his back at the start of his delivery.

 

Said he's been doing that his whole life, so it has been difficult to change that habit. Primary reason for the change is they think it will help his command, but they're also hoping it make it less likely he'll tip his pitches. 

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#31 Mike Sixel

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:37 AM

 

FWIW Berrios is working on some mechanical adjustments. On the Red Wings' pregame show just now he said he's trying to ditch that wrist curl thing he does with his pitching hand behind his back at the start of his delivery.

 

Said he's been doing that his whole life, so it has been difficult to change that habit. Primary reason for the change is they think it will help his command, but they're also hoping it make it less likely he'll tip his pitches. 

 

thanks for the update!

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#32 nater79a

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:46 AM

Gotta love the food nicknames for some of these Southern League teams.... Jumbo Shrimp, Bisquits.  I'm getting hungry!

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#33 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:49 AM

FWIW Berrios is working on some mechanical adjustments. On the Red Wings' pregame show just now he said he's trying to ditch that wrist curl thing he does with his pitching hand behind his back at the start of his delivery.
 
Said he's been doing that his whole life, so it has been difficult to change that habit. Primary reason for the change is they think it will help his command, but they're also hoping it make it less likely he'll tip his pitches.

Isn't that the change up, though?

It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All Star

Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#34 chpettit19

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 01:38 PM

 

Its' the same coaches and scouts.The only delta is the two at the top.

 

Berrios is too good for the minors. He might work on a thing or two, but no one will know anything until he's been in the majors for 2 years. IMO, he should be in MN as soon as Mejia has his next bad start.

I know its the same coaches and scouts, that's why I said they're being given different standards and different direction. If your boss gets fired because the company is failing and new guys come in to run things they give you different ways to do things and have different expectations.

 

He's going to dominate AAA. We already know that. But getting people out in the minors is different than getting them out in the bigs. The way he gets people out in the minors matters. He needed to tighten his command and control after last year. There's no way you can argue that point. He had no idea where the ball was going. In the minors you can get away with that because the hitters aren't as good or smart. Doesn't work in the majors, though. It's why some guys end up in the pen. You can't be a starter and survive without knowing where the ball is going. It's the same thing Buxton has struggled with the last couple years. He can hit fastballs. In the minors he just looks for fastballs and pounces because the pitchers don't have the control of their breaking stuff to challenge him well enough. The guys in the majors do. Until he learns to recognize and hit major league breaking pitches he'll fail. He can't learn to do that in the minors so he needs to take his lumps in the bigs. Berrios can learn to control and command his stuff in the minors. There's no reason to have him struggle in the bigs and lose his confidence when he could be working on things in the minors. As Dantes929 said...he's not a robot. There's a human element to things and if he hasn't improved his command he'll get shelled again. And it doesn't matter who you are, if you get beaten enough times it's going to effect you. When he comes up he needs to have everything in place to succeed. When he does come up I'd like to see him in the pen where he can just let it fly and see that he can get big league hitters out. Once he has that confidence and there's no doubt in his mind that he can succeed then you unleash him as a starter and have him carry that confidence and attacking mindset over. The Cardinals do it with all of their guys and it seems to be working pretty well for them. Danny Duffy talks about it all the time as well. If Berrios is throwing pitches without 100% confidence that he's getting the guy out on that pitch he will fail. Any pitcher will. Letting him dominate AAA and tighten things there before you bring him up is a good decision, in my opinion. Working on things while you get your brains bashed in against big leaguers is not a good strategy. For him or the team.

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#35 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 01:49 PM

I know its the same coaches and scouts, that's why I said they're being given different standards and different direction. If your boss gets fired because the company is failing and new guys come in to run things they give you different ways to do things and have different expectations.
 
He's going to dominate AAA. We already know that. But getting people out in the minors is different than getting them out in the bigs. The way he gets people out in the minors matters. He needed to tighten his command and control after last year. There's no way you can argue that point. He had no idea where the ball was going. In the minors you can get away with that because the hitters aren't as good or smart. Doesn't work in the majors, though. It's why some guys end up in the pen. You can't be a starter and survive without knowing where the ball is going. It's the same thing Buxton has struggled with the last couple years. He can hit fastballs. In the minors he just looks for fastballs and pounces because the pitchers don't have the control of their breaking stuff to challenge him well enough. The guys in the majors do. Until he learns to recognize and hit major league breaking pitches he'll fail. He can't learn to do that in the minors so he needs to take his lumps in the bigs. Berrios can learn to control and command his stuff in the minors. There's no reason to have him struggle in the bigs and lose his confidence when he could be working on things in the minors. As Dantes929 said...he's not a robot. There's a human element to things and if he hasn't improved his command he'll get shelled again. And it doesn't matter who you are, if you get beaten enough times it's going to effect you. When he comes up he needs to have everything in place to succeed. When he does come up I'd like to see him in the pen where he can just let it fly and see that he can get big league hitters out. Once he has that confidence and there's no doubt in his mind that he can succeed then you unleash him as a starter and have him carry that confidence and attacking mindset over. The Cardinals do it with all of their guys and it seems to be working pretty well for them. Danny Duffy talks about it all the time as well. If Berrios is throwing pitches without 100% confidence that he's getting the guy out on that pitch he will fail. Any pitcher will. Letting him dominate AAA and tighten things there before you bring him up is a good decision, in my opinion. Working on things while you get your brains bashed in against big leaguers is not a good strategy. For him or the team.

Good thoughts, but I feel like you are closer to our side than you realize. If Buxton needs to push through his struggles in MLB then Berrios should too. They play on different sides of the ball but as far as the maturing process, I don't see how it's that much different.

It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All Star

Game and an old timer's game. - Vin Scully


#36 Dantes929

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 02:18 PM

I think he was a little messed up and major league hitters are better but they are not that much better. What I saw watching Berrios on tv last year there was no way those performances would translate into success in the minors.  He was over throwing and was all over the place.  You don't go from a 3.83 so/bb in the minors to 1.4 in the majors throwing the same way.  Same thing happened recently with May. As for  Buxton.  The pitchers are better in the majors but you don't go from a .302 minor league average to .084 major league average doing the same things.  The fastballs he is missing right now he would not miss in the minors.  

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#37 Darius

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 03:50 PM

I think the rotation would be best with Berrios replacing Hughes.

#38 chpettit19

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 04:34 PM

 

Good thoughts, but I feel like you are closer to our side than you realize. If Buxton needs to push through his struggles in MLB then Berrios should too. They play on different sides of the ball but as far as the maturing process, I don't see how it's that much different.

I am pretty close to your side, yes. But the difference, to me, with Buxton and Berrios is that the things Berrios needs to work through are things he can do in the minors where it isn't hurting his confidence or the team. Buxton is baffled by big league pitchers being able to spot their breaking stuff and mixing pitches on him. The guys in the minors are not as good at those things so he needs to be facing major league guys with scouting reports on him and learn how to adjust. Berrios needs to tighten actual physical skills. He can, and in my opinion should, work on those struggles in the minors. The things he's trying to fix are the things that the minors are there for. There's plenty of guys who throw gas and have a nasty breaking ball, but being able to harness those things is why they go through the minors. Him learning to harness those things is what I see as his struggles right now. And I think he's pretty close. He looked awfully good in the WBC. But right now there's not an opening in the rotation (although I'd be happy seeing Gibson go to the pen, dude can't go through the order more than once). Without a glaring "this guy is torpedoing our rotation" opening at this point in the year I think you let Berrios tighten his mechanics outside of the spotlight.

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#39 chpettit19

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 04:37 PM

 

I think he was a little messed up and major league hitters are better but they are not that much better. What I saw watching Berrios on tv last year there was no way those performances would translate into success in the minors.  He was over throwing and was all over the place.  You don't go from a 3.83 so/bb in the minors to 1.4 in the majors throwing the same way.  Same thing happened recently with May. As for  Buxton.  The pitchers are better in the majors but you don't go from a .302 minor league average to .084 major league average doing the same things.  The fastballs he is missing right now he would not miss in the minors.  

 

I think Buxton is all between the ears. He's missing fastballs cuz he's got no idea what's coming at him. I think in the minors he was just sitting and hunting fastballs. The major league pitchers have scouting reports on him and know the holes in his game and they're abusing him by mixing pitches and keeping him off balance. I think he's going to bust out this year, and I'm hoping it's soon, but I also do think there is a pretty drastic difference between minor league players and major league players.


#40 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 04:46 PM

I would love to see him up after one more turn but for Gibson, not Hughes or Mejia. As I stated in another thread, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a mediocre starter is just a mediocre starter. Gibson's stats over the 3+ years has been in the Twins rotation tell the mediocre starter tale - 4.64 ERA,, 4.25 FIP, 6.1 K/9, 3.1 BB/9, 1.4 WHIP, 45% winning percentage. He is a number four starter on a bad team, a number five starter on a decent team, and a bullpen guy on a championship team. He belongs in the bullpen. Let's get the Berrios up and see the can be a mid rotation or better starter, same with Mejia. we know Gibson is not that guy.

Edited by LA VIkes Fan, 14 April 2017 - 04:48 PM.




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