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Article: Who Will Be Pitching Staff's Odd Man Out?

craig breslow tyler duffey michael tonkin justin haley
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#41 terrydactyls1947

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:04 AM

I apologize for the poorly written post above but it frustrates me that front offices make decisions on roster makeup and not the manager.

#42 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:07 AM

 

The baseball chief and the general manager have a plan for this team.  A big part of that plan is to hire their own manager.  The easiest way to delete the current manager is to allow him to lose..... a lot.  Any roster moves they may make at this time will not be designed to make the team better.

 

disagree. There is no grand conspiracy to hurt Molitor.

 

As for DanSan.....Molitor wants him on the roster. Saying that he was hamstrung because that was one of his options to play, well, that's on Molitor. Let's not give Paul a pass on this. Please.

 

As for the RP, the manager refuses to use Tonkin other than in a mop up capacity. Just let him go already. Breslow won't be missed when he leaves. Duffy should probably get a shot to start again, just in case he can be good (though I think he's a high leverage reliever). Most of the rest of the bullpen is just ok anyway. Does it really matter if they lose Tonkin, or Breslow? Breslow is, what, 78 years old? He won't be here when they're good. 

 

This is, imo, a failure of the FO and manager. It was when they went North, and it remains so now. 

 

But, I'll say this, since they didn't add a legit 4th OFer (and given Buxton's start, it sure looks like they should have for the 4th straight year), and they failed in their quest to sign any of the aging DH types, and Park is hurt, I have no idea who should come up.

 

Basically, this offseason, they fixed catcher and nothing else.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#43 nicksaviking

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:10 AM

 

I apologize for the poorly written post above but it frustrates me that front offices make decisions on roster makeup and not the manager.

 

It's always been that way though, that's not a modern thing. Roster construction also involves figuring out who has option years left and who can clear waivers, who still needs work and where the depth will be. These aren't things that the field manager dictates, nor should he.

 

The manager controls in-game action, the GM controls most everything else.

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#44 Shaitan

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:13 AM

"Rule 5 pick Justin Haley has more or less proven his worth"

 

I didn't realize you could do that in two MLB appearances.

 

Considering Breslow has been used the least, it should be an easy choice. I wouldn't expect a move until we're at least to Santana's next start. You don't make the bullpen shorter right before starting a rookie #5 (after a bad start).

 

 

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#45 Shaitan

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:14 AM

 

We can't let go of Haley, because we'll automatically go back to the team we got him from, correct? Doesn't he have to stay on the roster in order to keep him?

 

He goes through waivers first, then back to original team. Then they could trade for him.

 

Can they make a trade with BOS now, or did that have to be done before Opening Day?


#46 Tom Froemming

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:17 AM

 

I guess I'm too old to understand the 21St century front office methods. I would have thought a front office would asemble the best players they could and let their manager do the best he can. But from what I read in TD articles and reader posts is that the front office dictates how many pitchers and how many hiters the team will carry. That makes no sense to me. Is there any purpose for having a manager? Let computers dictate all the moves.

If you want evidence that Paul Molitor has influence over the 25-man roster, I think the fact that Danny Santana is still around is all you need.

 

He's been one of the worst players in baseball for two years and had a poor spring. Hard for me to believe the front office would have been keen on keeping him (though we'll see what happens once Ehire Adrianza is healthy).

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#47 Thrylos

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:24 AM

I think that the roster decisions that need to be made soon are a bit more complicated than "dropping a reliever and picking up Vargas".Here are the complications, on early roster decisions:

 

  • They soon need to decide on Adrianza and O'Rourke, both about to come out of the 10-day DL and out of options.Easy decision for me: DFA both and see if they clear waivers.
  • Their "best bet" to come up from Rochester (Park) is hurt with hammy issues
  • They have pitchers with options in the majors (Duffey, Mejia) but one has been a starter and the other lights out.
  • The best player for bench depth and versatility for the Twins, right now, might not be Vargas, but Niko Goodrum, who has been on fire in Rochester (.353/.389/.647) and can pretty much play every position but catcher.
  • When Molitor is looking and his bench and being disgusted, he is looking at Mr .143 as well (.143/.143/.143), below replacement level, Danny Santana (who is out of options.)
  • In SSS Tonkin has not been awful (but 100% LOB and 0% FB/HR might change that quickly upon regression to normal), but has career lows in K/9 and BB/9. But still is SSS
  • Breslow, on the other hand, has bigger issues:The arm angle change experiment that was supposedly going to help him increase his velocity, has failed.His velocity this season is 2 mph below last season, and 87 mph fastballs do not cut it.

 

What I would do?DFA Breslow and Santana, bring up Goodrum and Vargas, and after Park returns, depending on performance, flip with Vargas (who has options).

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#48 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:27 AM

 

If you want evidence that Paul Molitor has influence over the 25-man roster, I think the fact that Danny Santana is still around is all you need.

 

He's been one of the worst players in baseball for two years and had a poor spring. Hard for me to believe the front office would have been keen on keeping him (though we'll see what happens once Ehire Adrianza is healthy).

 

I'm intrigued by Adrianza... I'd certainly like for him to be D San's replacement on the 25 man roster ASAP. 

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#49 Steve Lein

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:29 AM

It's Tonkin for me.

 

While I can't explain the way they've used him in the majors, it's clear that Molitor doesn't trust him enough. Why keep pushing the inevitable off?

 

You leave Duffey in the bullpen. I've said throughout his career that's where he should be, even when he was having success as a starter. Good chance he's closing for Twins before season's end.

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#50 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:37 AM

thrylos is right.....filling your bullpen with old players w/o options is handcuffing a team like this. If only that had been predictable before 1 week into the season, and there were a whole lot of RPs in AAA and AA that threw the ball hard...

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#51 DJL44

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:43 AM

Cut Danny Santana, sign Angel Pagan. Problem solved.

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#52 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:45 AM

 

Cut Danny Santana, sign Angel Pagan. Problem solved.

 

This would be a great solution.... I wonder why Pagan has not been signed yet? Is he holding out for too much money? Judging solely by his stat line he can still hold his own quite well at the plate. 

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#53 Nick Nelson

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:47 AM

 

 It should have been Park out of spring training, but if not him (I know he's got a hamstring thing right now), then go get a RH hitting OF option. Particularly since the guy who should be the RH fourth outfielder can't play OF and is somehow needed to DH.

Honestly, I really felt like they should have kept Stubbs out of ST and now that's even looking more like the case. His RH bat was such a nice fit with Rosario and Kepler starting in the corners, plus he could play CF and allows you to spell Buxton without starting Santana. 

 

Alas, now Stubbs is with the Giants. We'll see how he does in San Fran. 

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#54 Respy

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:20 AM

I'd expect that the Twins don't make a change until at least Friday night, because they are lined up to face three righties today through Friday.  The short bench is easier to deal with given how the lineup is drawn against righties.  The Twins are scheduled to face lefty Quintana on Saturday.  I think if the Twins starters have long starts the next three games, we see a move Friday night.  If the bullpen gets taxed this week though, they might feel they have to hang onto the extended bullpen for now.


#55 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:22 AM

It's hard for me to care who is the odd man out, I just want them to make a decision and get either Vargas or Park up here soon.

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#56 rdehring

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:15 AM

I'd keep Breslow for another six weeks as a lefty specialist. It looks like Perkins is making progress in Ft. Myers, let Breslow go when Perkins is ready to come back...hopefully, in early June.

So that puts Tonkin as the odd man out when they bring Vargas back, hopefully soon!

#57 TheLeviathan

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:16 AM

The Berardino tweet says it all to me - this 25 man is on the FO. And it needs to change soon.
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#58 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:30 AM

We have 16 straight game days (15 after yesterday), including 4 next week against Cleveland and 3 the week after on the road against Texas, a good hitting team. Those games give us a chance to go through the rotation roughly 4 times (actually 4 plus 3 starts) so we can see Mejia and Hughes start 4 times. The other 3 are safe until at least the trade deadline unless they implode completely. 

 

As much as I hate to say it, I doubt if there will be a major change like dropping a pitcher until that stretch is over. The FO will want that much time to evaluate the likely candidates - Breslow, Tonkin and Haley (or Duffy/Mejia to the minors as starters if they really like all three) - before making a move that could cost them the player. i'm sure they've tried to make a trade with Boston to get Haley and it hasn't worked. I've read that Boston wants him back and isn't interested in a trade. I think this is the pitching staff through most of April barring injury. 

 

I also would love to see a move on the rest of the roster but again just don't see it. Adrianza looked good this spring but if you bring him and drop Santana you only have Grossman as a spare outfielder. You have to keep Grossman because only he, Sano and Castro are hitting. You need a spare OF with Buxton, Rosario and Kepler all not hitting. That raises the question of when you cut bait on those as your three everyday OFs.  Probably too soon, but by late April we will have to make a move if all three still aren't hitting.  Making it more difficult is the lack of minor league depth - Rochester started or used Goodrum (maybe but just got to AAA), Schuck (mediocre MLB player at best), Paulson (corner IF out of position), and Palka (maybe a good hitter, liability as an OFer).

 

Soooo,  I predict no change in the roster until after 4/27, again barring injury, with the one possibility being Adrianza or possibly  Goodrum replacing Santana. They are moving Goodrum around in the minors so the plan may be for him to replace D Santana. After then, one of the RPs goes and either Park or Vargas comes up. 

Edited by LA VIkes Fan, 12 April 2017 - 10:34 AM.

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#59 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:35 AM

 

We have 16 straight game days (15 after yesterday), including 4 next week against Cleveland and 3 the week after on the road against Texas, a good hitting team. Those games give us a chance to go through the rotation roughly 4 times (actually 4 plus 3 starts) so we can see Mejia and Hughes start 4 times. The other 3 are safe until at least the trade deadline unless they implode completely. 

 

As much as I hate to say it, I doubt if there will be a major change like dropping a pitcher until that stretch is over. The FO will want that much time to evaluate the likely candidates - Breslow, Tonkin and Haley (or Duffy/Mejia to the minors as starters if they really like all three) - before making a move that could cost them the player. i'm sure they've tried to make a trade with Boston to get Haley and it hasn't worked. I've read that Boston wants him back and isn't interested in a trade. I think this is the pitching staff through most of April barring injury. 

 

I also would love to see a move on the rest of the roster but again just don't see it. Adrianza looked good this spring but if you bring him and drop Santana you only have Grossman as a spare outfielder. You have to keep Grossman because only he, Sano and Castro are hitting. You need a spare OF with Buxton, Rosario and Kepler all not hitting. That raises the question of when you cut bait on those as your three everyday OFs.  Probably too soon, but by late April we will have to make a move if all three still aren't hitting.  Making it more difficult is the lack of minor league depth - Rochester started or used Goodrum (maybe but just got to AAA), Schuck (mediocre MLB player at best), Paulson (corner IF out of position), and Palka (maybe a good hitter, liability as an OFer).

 

Soooo,  I predict no change in the roster until after 4/27, again barring injury, with the one possibility being Adrianza or possibly  Goodrum replacing Santana. They are moving Goodrum around in the minors so the plan may be for him to replace D Santana. After then, one of the RPs goes and either Park or Vargas comes up. 

 

I agree with this. The FO made these choices with April in mind, and they aren't going to change their mind 1 or 2 weeks in, IMO.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#60 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:37 AM

Oh and Angel Pagan isn't coming to Minnesota. He wants a chance to start and a contract with "a base salary approaching $5 mil" according to the Giants beat writers.  He would only come if we sent one of the 3 young OFs down, paid him like a starter,  and gave him a chance to play every day. 

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