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Shohei Otani

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#21 Thrylos

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 12:11 PM

 

did you read a single article I posted?

 

You realize you can't offer a $5MM bonus, and 100MM deal to any IFA any more, right? 

 

I'm done. 

 

Your prerogative, but, again, you have not posted anything that says there is a limit in the contract, if that is a major league contract. 

 

My point is that he will get a major league contract and be on the 40-man roster right away, unlike the cases of Yoan Moncada, Yadier Alvarez, etc who are the kind of people who will get affected by this.

 

Feel free to ignore the difference, but it does not make it go away :)

Edited by Thrylos, 11 April 2017 - 12:12 PM.

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#22 Respy

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 12:14 PM

Otani has been an astronomically-regarded international prospect for years.

 

minorleaguebaseball.com: "The best pitching prospect in baseball."

Beyondtheboxscore.com: "Shohei Otani has the results, stuff and mechanics to make a compelling case for the title of best right-handed pitcher in the world."

SI.com: "Shohei Ohtani—Japan's Babe Ruth—is about to change the face of baseball"

 

Add on top of that the way things have gone for Nishioka and ByungHo Park with the Twins, I'd give this a 0.0000000000% chance that Otani ends up with the Twins.


#23 Steve Lein

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:16 PM

What am I missing here? All the articles say this will prevent Otani from coming for three years now, but I'm not quite sure I see why.

 

The cap is on the bonus. I've read that exact wording in several articles, including those linked here and others I've found on my own. What I haven't seen, is why a team couldn't just give the max bonus and then immediately sign him to an MLB contract extension for all the money he is actually worth. 

 

Now, I obviously don't see if there is wording in the CBA to prevent this type of thing, but teams don't have to wait a certain amount of time to sign their player's to extensions. Some get them their first year in the majors, or after just six MLB games like Evan Longoria.

 

Otani would be in the majors immediately, so why can't he then immediately get the big contract? Seems to me that would be pretty easy to negotiate on the front end.

 

 

 

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Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#24 drjim

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:16 PM

An international guy who signs before age 25 can only sign a minor league contract. That's the point of the caps. Also why it was panned when the cba was signed.
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#25 drjim

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:18 PM

Read here: https://www.mlbtrade...ei-otani-3.html

He would have to wait two years for no spending cap.
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#26 Willihammer

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:28 PM

Is it just me or is this situation ripe for corruption? Only what, a million and change separates the top and bottom bonus pools? Money won't be the deciding factor in where Otani chooses to play, so what will be?

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Well, there's that.

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#27 Vanimal46

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:32 PM

 

Is it just me or is this situation ripe for corruption? Only what, a million and change separates the top and bottom bonus pools? Money won't be the deciding factor in where Otani chooses to play, so what will be?

 

That's the $5.25 MM question specifically for the Twins... Does he follow Ichiro's path and choose Seattle? Follow Tanaka to New York? Or perhaps create his own legacy somewhere....  


#28 Steve Lein

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:34 PM

I don't read anything there that says he couldn't sign an extension. That's the wording that is missing in all these articles.

 

All it takes is one team to say we'll pay you what you would have gotten without the new rules. Show me where that is prevented, as I don't see it.

 

EDIT: I don't doubt it exists somehow, but it literally is not stated anywhere.

Edited by Steve Lein, 11 April 2017 - 01:36 PM.

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#29 Steve Lein

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:43 PM

 

Read here: https://www.mlbtrade...ei-otani-3.html

He would have to wait two years for no spending cap.

 

Again, that's on the bonus to get him into your organization. 

 

He will be on an MLB roster quickly, if not immediately. At that point he has an MLB contract and the "only can sign a minor league contract" point is moot. Where does it say that he can't sign an extension until he's 25? That is not mentioned anywhere, and seems like a pretty big omission to me, as well as an easy loophole to exploit and leverage.

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Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#30 nicksaviking

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:45 PM

 

Your prerogative, but, again, you have not posted anything that says there is a limit in the contract, if that is a major league contract. 

 

My point is that he will get a major league contract and be on the 40-man roster right away, unlike the cases of Yoan Moncada, Yadier Alvarez, etc who are the kind of people who will get affected by this.

 

Feel free to ignore the difference, but it does not make it go away :)

 

Those guys all signed before the new CBA when teams were free to go over slot on their international free agent money and pay the penalty.

 

The new CBA now prevents that if I'm not mistaken.


#31 nicksaviking

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:50 PM

 

Again, that's on the bonus to get him into your organization. 

 

He will be on an MLB roster quickly, if not immediately. At that point he has an MLB contract and the "only can sign a minor league contract" point is moot. Where does it say that he can't sign an extension until he's 25? That is not mentioned anywhere, and seems like a pretty big omission to me, as well as an easy loophole to exploit and leverage.

 

If there wasn't language prohibiting that then I'd think teams would have been doing this all along instead of paying the player and then paying the same amount in penalties to the league for blowing past their international cash allotment. With how tight MLB owners are, I can't see them paying the 100% penalty if there had always been a cheaper loophole to manipulate.


#32 Willihammer

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:53 PM

The other thing to keep in mind is that teams who blew through their spending cap in the 2015-2016 IFA market will be limited to $300k bonuses in the 2017-2018 period. This includes:

The Cubs, Dodgers, Giants and Royals will be in their second year of the penalty, while the A’s, Astros, Braves, Cardinals, Nationals, Padres and Reds will be in their first penalty year.

Well, there's that.

-Dark Star, RIP


#33 drjim

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:55 PM

 

If there wasn't language prohibiting that then I'd think teams would have been doing this all along instead of paying the player and then paying the same amount in penalties to the league for blowing past their international cash allotment. With how tight MLB owners are, I can't see them paying the 100% penalty if there had always been a cheaper loophole to manipulate.

 

There was chatter about that, the response that the league office would crack down hard on an agreement that involved a quick extension.

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#34 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:58 PM

In answer to what will decide, if not money in the first year.....

 

Location, since he is Japanese, he might prefer a WC city, or NY, I'd guess.

Contention....I can't speak for him, but I'd rather play for a contender

Ability to make money on endorsements

Possibly a place where other Japanese are, or have succeeded in the past.

 

Hence my prediction of LAD, NYY, Seattle, TX.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#35 Thrylos

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:59 PM

 

An international guy who signs before age 25 can only sign a minor league contract.

 

This is incorrect.They usually sign them (have been signing them) to minor league contracts, but there is not a place that says that you cannot sign him to a major league contact.

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#36 Steve Lein

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:02 PM

 

There was chatter about that, the response that the league office would crack down hard on an agreement that involved a quick extension.

 

Okay, so is this why the articles point out that it's screwing over all the young players from Latin America and elsewhere?

 

They're basically saying it's okay for a domestic player to get an MLB contract extension after say, six games in the majors (like Evan Longoria), but not for them?

 

Do you see why this is dumb and why I point out the lack of clarity?

Edited by Steve Lein, 11 April 2017 - 02:06 PM.

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)


#37 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:05 PM

 

Okay, so is this why the articles point out that it's screwing over all the young players from Latin America and elsewhere?

 

They're basically saying it's okay for a domestic player to get an MLB contract extension after say, six games in the majors (like Evan Longoria), but not for them?

 

Do you see why this is dumb and why I bring it up?

 

It is dumb. Limiting the wages of someone to save money for billionaires is inherently dumb. yes.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#38 Willihammer

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:08 PM

 

In answer to what will decide, if not money in the first year.....

 

Location, since he is Japanese, he might prefer a WC city, or NY, I'd guess.

Contention....I can't speak for him, but I'd rather play for a contender

Ability to make money on endorsements

Possibly a place where other Japanese are, or have succeeded in the past.

 

Hence my prediction of LAD, NYY, Seattle, TX.

Yeah, I agree they'll factor into his equation probably. But they don't close the ~$200m gap between his IFA bonus and what he's worth.

Well, there's that.

-Dark Star, RIP


#39 Mike Sixel

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:12 PM

 

Yeah, I agree they'll factor into his equation probably. But they don't close the ~$200m gap between his IFA bonus and what he's worth.

 

quite true. It's why everyone but thrylos thought he would wait another couple years....

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#40 drjim

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:22 PM

 

Okay, so is this why the articles point out that it's screwing over all the young players from Latin America and elsewhere?

 

They're basically saying it's okay for a domestic player to get an MLB contract extension after say, six games in the majors (like Evan Longoria), but not for them?

 

Do you see why this is dumb and why I point out the lack of clarity?

 

I agree it is dumb.

Papers...business papers.