Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Photo

Article: It's All Good in the Outfield

  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 2,265 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:09 PM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...in-the-Outfield

#2 Twins best friend

Twins best friend

    Member

  • Members
  • 37 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 12:09 AM

I'm not sure if I ever would have classified Span as an "elite" top of the order bat but i would definitely call him an above-average offensive and defensive player. The solid production from Revere and the strong seasons Hicks and Arcia are having in AA really have me feeling optimistic about the Twins future. I'm excited everyday to see what those two produce. Any chance either would be a candidate for a September call-up? I realize that the Rock Cats are in the playoff race and that Arcia started the year in Ft. Myers but should the get a debut in another lost year for the Twins?

#3 CwK

CwK

    Member

  • Members
  • 88 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:53 AM

How close are the Rock Cats to securing a playoff bid? I'd like to see Hicks get as much time as possible and play in AA post-season. And maybe avoid what happened to Benson last year (overmatched). Thoughts?

#4 Twins Fan From Afar

Twins Fan From Afar

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 655 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:19 AM

The Rock Cats are in second place in their division in have a 1.5 game lead over the third place team (the top two teams in each division go to the playoffs).

#5 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,357 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:32 AM

I'm not sure if I ever would have classified Span as an "elite" top of the order bat but i would definitely call him an above-average offensive and defensive player.


Span had two pretty elite seasons. Any time your leadoff guy is getting on base 39% of the time, posts an OPS+ over 120, and plays above average up-the-middle defense, that's pretty elite. You can argue that his 2009 campaign wasn't elite due to his defensive slide but his 2008 was definitely elite, as he posted over a 4 WAR in 400 ABs.

It's unfortunate that it doesn't look like he'll ever be that player again.

#6 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:42 AM

Span had two pretty elite seasons. Any time your leadoff guy is getting on base 39% of the time, posts an OPS+ over 120, and plays above average up-the-middle defense, that's pretty elite. You can argue that his 2009 campaign wasn't elite due to his defensive slide but his 2008 was definitely elite, as he posted over a 4 WAR in 400 ABs.

It's unfortunate that it doesn't look like he'll ever be that player again.


Metrodome Span was elite...TF Span is just pretty good.

#7 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,465 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:08 AM

Metrodome Span was elite...TF Span is just pretty good.


Road Span looks like Rich Becker.

#8 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,357 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:27 AM

Metrodome Span was elite...TF Span is just pretty good.


Yep. Even though he's posting stupid home/road splits, I think TF has hurt him more than most.

#9 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Shaking the rust off................my golf game

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,300 posts
  • LocationZumbrota MN

Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:50 AM

Target Field Span is an All-Star. Road Span is Rich Becker. How can you say that Target Field has hurt Span when he has hit great there all three years? Span's home/road split in OPS since 2010: .761 H .602 R in 2010 .728 H .660 R in 2011 and .937 H and .545 R this year.

#10 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:50 AM

Yep. Even though he's posting stupid home/road splits, I think TF has hurt him more than most.


Metrodome OPS .863
Target Field OPS .688

I don't know if it was the turf or whatever, but Metrodome Span was a 4 win player.

I'd love to see that return.

#11 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 10,357 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:54 AM

Target Field Span is an All-Star. Road Span is Rich Becker. How can you say that Target Field has hurt Span when he has hit great there all three years? Span's home/road split in OPS since 2010: .761 H .602 R in 2010 .728 H .660 R in 2011 and .937 H and .545 R this year.


I think he's had to change his play to accomodate TF. He was on track to become a 10-12 homer player in the dome and that number was crushed with the move to TF. I think that change of style has been a cause of his pretty bad road splits. There's nothing about Target Field that makes Span a better offensive player while there's a lot to dislike about the park as a lefty.

#12 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,134 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:42 AM

For me, the exciting thing about the current (and future) outfield is the ground they can cover. With pitchers that don't miss a lot of bats and generous power alleys at TF, that's critical. I never understood the rationale for trading Hardy before 2011 being a supposed desire to improve team speed on offense to take advantage of the expansive outfield at TF, while at the same time doing nothing about the lack of any speed at all in either corner OF position defensively. Having Span and Revere both in the line up has certainly helped the team offensively, but having them both in the OF has been just as critical to the Twins improvement since mid May. If a Benson or Hicks becomes MLB-ready, that's great. But if not, I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited about a Willingham-Revere-Parmelee outfield defensively.

#13 minn55441

minn55441

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 521 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:49 AM

Like the element of speed in our lineup that we haven't had in years past. Punto and the piranha's are nothing compared to what Revere and Masty have done on the bases. Every time they get on base, you know something is going to happen. They put pressure on the opposing defense. I really like our blend of speed and power. It is mainly brought by our 3 outfield positions.

#14 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,709 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:57 AM

For me, the exciting thing about the current (and future) outfield is the ground they can cover. With pitchers that don't miss a lot of bats and generous power alleys at TF, that's critical. I never understood the rationale for trading Hardy before 2011 being a supposed desire to improve team speed on offense to take advantage of the expansive outfield at TF, while at the same time doing nothing about the lack of any speed at all in either corner OF position defensively.

Having Span and Revere both in the line up has certainly helped the team offensively, but having them both in the OF has been just as critical to the Twins improvement since mid May. If a Benson or Hicks becomes MLB-ready, that's great. But if not, I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited about a Willingham-Revere-Parmelee outfield defensively.


Exactly. I want nothing to do with Parmelee in the OF. Please no.

#15 Steve Penz

Steve Penz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 253 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:34 AM

Having Span and Revere both in the line up has certainly helped the team offensively, but having them both in the OF has been just as critical to the Twins improvement since mid May. If a Benson or Hicks becomes MLB-ready, that's great. But if not, I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited about a Willingham-Revere-Parmelee outfield defensively.


Agreed. Willingham will only get slower next year. I think it would be very exciting if, in 2014, the OF line up included 2 or 3 of the outfielders from New Britain's current lineup. I look forward to Parmalee being a regular bat in the lineup but surely there is very good reason why he has not played more outfield in his career.

#16 Siehbiscuit

Siehbiscuit

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 330 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:06 PM

Hopeful 2014 lineup (with Gardy out there may be some platooning): C- Joe Mauer/Ryan Doumit 1B - Chris Parmalee/Mauer 2B - Eddie Rosario SS - Who knows??? Niko Goodrum/Brian Dozier/Levi Michael/FA 3B - Trevor Plouffe RF - Aaron Hicks CF - Ben Revere LF - Oswaldo Arcia/Joe Benson/Willingham DH -Josh Willingham/Doumit Seems promising in most areas. Plus, Sano should be on his way shortly after 2014 begins and maybe Buxton early 2015. Span and Morneau are moved for in the 2014 and 2013 offseasons for pitching.... ...and then I woke up and Gardy is still here and the Twins re-sign Blackburn to a two year extension.

#17 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 5,133 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:33 PM

I think we should note that Willingham, according to UZR, has cost the Twins less than four runs compared to the average left fielder. He's about average per that metric. I think our perception of him as worse than that is because he's bad at something it doesn't measure - picking up balls on the ground. But he's not bad at getting to balls in the air, which is probably a more valuable skill. That costs outs AND bases, whereas not picking up a ball cleanly just costs bases.

#18 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:35 PM

I think we should note that Willingham, according to UZR, has cost the Twins less than four runs compared to the average left fielder. He's about average per that metric.


I hate UZR and most defensive metrics.

When it doubt go to the eye test and my eye says Willingham is a brutal defender...but as long as he hits you can live with it.

#19 Oxtung

Oxtung

    I don't skinny dip. I chunky dunk.

  • Members
  • 1,551 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:05 PM

I don't think anybody sees Parmelee as a long term solution at OF. It is more a solution to many short term problems the Twins have currently. 1) Pitching- In order to acquire more pitching the Twins need to trade somebody. OF is a position of depth currently in the organization making players here logical trade bait. 2) IF Span/Willingham get traded this offseason there will be a spot open in the OF until Hicks/Arcia/Benson are ready to fill it. The Twins aren't going to count on Hicks/Arcia/Benson being ready to fill that hole to start 2013. They might get looks in spring training but the Twins will need to have a plan in place incase none are ready to handle that position. 3) Parmelee will be 25 before next season and has absolutely destroyed AAA. He seemingly has nothing left to learn at AAA AND he is a potential impact bat for the lineup. His natural position of 1B likely won't be open until the trade deadline 2013 (or Morneau gets re-signed in which case Parmelee is trade bait) so he needs to find another spot to make this team. You put those 3 together and Parmelee in RF for half a year makes sense.

#20 y2jjj54

y2jjj54

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:51 PM

I don't really understand why people are in such a hurry to get a spot open for Chris Parmelee. At best I see him being a Lyle Overbay type player. Which to me is a below average first baseman. I would rather extend Morneau for a reasonable deal.