Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

The Store

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

From MinnCentric


Photo

Can't we just enjoy what we have?

  • Please log in to reply
139 replies to this topic

#1 spideyo

spideyo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 603 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:22 PM

I'm getting a little sick of the negativity and the refusal to accept reality at face value. Examples: Deduno is doing well.....so let's talk about how the twins pitching staff is probably going to screw him up Willingham is hitting more homers than anyone ever in Target Field and is a crowd fave and a clutch hitter.....we better trade him now. Scott Diamond has been the most stable and reliable starter we have, and has done a fantastic job this year....but he's still at best a poor man's someone or other and won't really turn out to be great Mourneau is finally returning to pre-concussion form, and is doing well, and is strating to improve against lefties.....let's trade him as soon as possible Mastroianni is doing exactly what we want a 4th OF/bench guy doing, handling spot starts, stealing like crazy, making clutch hits when nesc.....so let's move him to 2b Revere is making highlight reel catches constantly, has a 20 game hit streak, within a week will be in the top 5 for BA, and is second in the AL in SB. He's 23 and hasn't even played a full season at the major league level......so let's trade him immediately because he'll never be a legit starter What we actually have is a team that started out really, REALLY awful, made some significant, if not high-profile, lineup changes, altered their game plans (remember at the beginning of the year how Doumit, Plouffe, and Parmelee were going to see time in RF?) and have seen considerable improvement. They aren't making the playoffs this year, but they may finish out of the cellar. It's not unrealistic to think that this team could compete for a playoff spot next year if they add a few more pieces. So why can't we just enjoy the improvement and enjoy the success, instead of advocating that we blow up the whole team and plan for 2015?

#2 Blake

Blake

    Member

  • Members
  • 43 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:28 PM

I concur. Watching the Twins take three out of four in Boston then crushing Cleveland has been fun.

#3 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,736 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:34 PM

Count me in. I belong to the "need two good SP to contend next year" crew. Hopefully Gibson can be one and a decent FA signing can be the other. The lineup looks pretty solid now.

#4 Monkeypaws

Monkeypaws

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 756 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:44 PM

Count me in - if they can add a dependable starter or two in the off-season, this team could be competitive in the Central as soon as next season.

#5 greengoblinrulz

greengoblinrulz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:47 PM

Hmmmmm ok, so nobody is allowed an opinion?

#6 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,052 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:47 PM

There are a bunch of people who think the Twins could contend next season with a couple of smart acquisitions. The problem is that every single one of them has a different idea of how to get there. The OP is looking at the negatives in each post instead of seeing that each person is trying to figure out how to most improve the team... and to get quality starting pitching, the Twins are going to have to give up quality bats.

#7 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,367 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:48 PM

I'm getting a little sick of the negativity and the refusal to accept reality at face value.

Revere is making highlight reel catches constantly, has a 20 game hit streak, within a week will be in the top 5 for BA, and is second in the AL in SB. He's 23 and hasn't even played a full season at the major league level......so let's trade him immediately because he'll never be a legit starter



What we actually have is a team that started out really, REALLY awful, made some significant, if not high-profile, lineup changes, altered their game plans (remember at the beginning of the year how Doumit, Plouffe, and Parmelee were going to see time in RF?) and have seen considerable improvement. They aren't making the playoffs this year, but they may finish out of the cellar. It's not unrealistic to think that this team could compete for a playoff spot next year if they add a few more pieces.

So why can't we just enjoy the improvement and enjoy the success, instead of advocating that we blow up the whole team and plan for 2015?


Minor correction, Revere is 24. The fact that they started out so awfully and didn't know what they had in the SPs, Revere, Valencia, Plouffe, Morneau, Parmelee is telling that they didn't have a real handle on what they had or a cogent plan to compete. Caught between rebuilding and reloading, impossible to do both, but not able to admit they must do the former if there's any hope to compete long-term.

That said, the last few days have been fun as expected and unexpected guys have stepped up and nothing wrong with enjoying the short-term while still being mindful of long-term priorities.

But, reality still bites, as this overall "team improvement" is mirage-like:

Twins June-July record in 2011: 33-22
Twins June-July record in 2012: 26-27

#8 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Yes

  • Members
  • 4,434 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:50 PM

I'm getting a little sick of the negativity and the refusal to accept reality at face value.


Reality: This is a season that the Twins are having the second worst record in the AL (and are a couple games over the team with the worst record) after a season that they had the worst record.

Shall we be happy about it and start talking about how great this team is? There are individual positive things, but overall, the last 2 seasons are there with the late 90s Twins teams....

Sad but REAL.

And if anyone is happy with the way the Twins have been performing this season, he/she is probably a White Sux fan or something

Not a matter of glass half full or half empty. The glass is on the floor shuttered in a million pieces...

Edited by Thrylos, 07 August 2012 - 01:54 PM.

-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#9 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:01 PM

Coming from a miserable **** like myself I find no joy in watching this team the last 2 seasons. There are a couple of guys that personal are having great years but overall this franchise is a mess right now. Sorry it's not all peaches and sunshines but the Twins are a mess and there's no light at the end of the tunnel anytime soon.

#10 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,736 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

I promise nobody will force you to be happy. Is it OK if some of us don't spend our day bitching about things we have absolutely zero control over? Thank you.

#11 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:03 PM

Is it OK if some of us don't spend our day bitching about things we have absolutely zero control over?

Thank you.



What's the point of a message board then?

#12 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,052 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:05 PM

What's the point of a message board then?


Pictures of cute baby animals! Use your head, DPJ!

Posted Image

#13 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,736 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:05 PM

What's the point of a message board then?


Yes, it sucks to be us. :banghead:

#14 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 7,367 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:11 PM

I promise nobody will force you to be happy. Is it OK if some of us don't spend our day bitching about things we have absolutely zero control over?

Thank you.


Well, actually we don't have much control, but it's more than zero. The customer's not always right, but consensus public opinion in a definite direction can lead to changes. Pohlad clearly stated there were no management changes needed last fall- the MN Twins is not a "knee jerk" operation. It can be argued that he did take a reading of the public through opinion boards and ticket sales that filtered up through levels of the Twins' decision-making bureaucracy, and voila, Bingo Bill Smith was gone less than 30 days later.

#15 Steve Penz

Steve Penz

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 242 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:12 PM

There is a difference between being negative and considering smart moves. Your examples are all over the board. Some folks will dwell on negative. What can you do? However, there is nothing wrong with thinking about dealing Mourneau, Hammer, or others. The twins will need to use offense to find pitching. I would love to see them compete in 2013 and I would love more to see them crush the league for 5 years straight because they gave up some valuable players and rebuilt the team properly.

#16 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:14 PM

Message boards, blogs, newspaper comment sections (god help us all) are just forums for people to bitch and complain about things they have no control over. Hell this place is where I let most of my hatred (DAVE) and anger go so I don't bring it home to the Mrs. and youth.

#17 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,052 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:15 PM

Hell this place is where I let most of my hatred (DAVE) and anger go


You two are such a cute couple. :s-instagib:

#18 Jim Crikket

Jim Crikket

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,134 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:15 PM

What's the point of a message board then?


So the only point for a message board is to bitch. Now that I understand that, at least it explains why I find the message board to be the least valuable aspect of the TwinsDaily site.
[COLOR=#0000cd]I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at[/COLOR][COLOR=#800000] Knuckleballsblog.com[/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd] while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for [/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd][COLOR=#800000]MetroSportsReport.com[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd].[/COLOR] [COLOR=#0000cd]
[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#b22222]~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~[/COLOR]

#19 cr9617

cr9617

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 157 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:15 PM

Finding only the silver linings in this roster isn't facing reality.

#20 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,180 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:17 PM

I'm getting a little sick of the negativity and the refusal to accept reality at face value. Examples:

Deduno is doing well.....so let's talk about how the twins pitching staff is probably going to screw him up

Willingham is hitting more homers than anyone ever in Target Field and is a crowd fave and a clutch hitter.....we better trade him now.

Scott Diamond has been the most stable and reliable starter we have, and has done a fantastic job this year....but he's still at best a poor man's someone or other and won't really turn out to be great

Mourneau is finally returning to pre-concussion form, and is doing well, and is strating to improve against lefties.....let's trade him as soon as possible

Mastroianni is doing exactly what we want a 4th OF/bench guy doing, handling spot starts, stealing like crazy, making clutch hits when nesc.....so let's move him to 2b

Revere is making highlight reel catches constantly, has a 20 game hit streak, within a week will be in the top 5 for BA, and is second in the AL in SB. He's 23 and hasn't even played a full season at the major league level......so let's trade him immediately because he'll never be a legit starter



What we actually have is a team that started out really, REALLY awful, made some significant, if not high-profile, lineup changes, altered their game plans (remember at the beginning of the year how Doumit, Plouffe, and Parmelee were going to see time in RF?) and have seen considerable improvement. They aren't making the playoffs this year, but they may finish out of the cellar. It's not unrealistic to think that this team could compete for a playoff spot next year if they add a few more pieces.

So why can't we just enjoy the improvement and enjoy the success, instead of advocating that we blow up the whole team and plan for 2015?

I am optimistic as they come, but this is unfair.

Dedundo will be messed up by the pitching staff? Nobody is saying that. People are saying that its hard to imagine him continuing to pitch well when he is walking more guys than he is striking out. There is nothing negative about that, its reality.

Willingham- Last place teams should always be open to trading their veterans. I'd hate to see the Hammer go personally, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't explore trades.

Nobody is trashing Diamond, he just isn't an ace. But has the potential to be a very nice #3 on a COMPETING team.

Morneau- See: Willingham.

Revere- has been a nice surprise and is over preforming expectations. The Twins have TONS of OF depth in the majors and minors, they should be trying to trade at least on OF this off-season for SP help.

Mastrionni- I don't get your point at all. Most people are very happy with Mastro and would like to see him play 2B since he could benefit the team more that way. By the end of next season Mastro could be the 6th best OF on the Twins major league roster (if he isn't let go by that point)

#21 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,180 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:18 PM

You two are such a cute couple. :s-instagib:


I'm pretty sure he is joking. At one point he was supposed to crash on my couch for a weekend here in NY for the playoff series.

#22 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:21 PM

You two are such a cute couple. :s-instagib:


Could have been you and I if you wouldn't have ruined it.

#23 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,180 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:21 PM

I feel like the people who are complaining that the Twinsdaily message boards are "way to negative" have never ventured into an internet forum, blog or comments section before. Yes, some people are negative, these things will happen when you have one of the worst teams in baseball two years in a row. However these forums are some of the more balanced ones I have seen. Of course there are a couple people who take different viewpoints/sides to an extreme, but it's really not that hard to avoid them. The Twins are currently the 2nd worst team in the AL, nobody should be jumping for joy right now as Twins fans. Though I certainly think we have a decent shot in 2013 if Ryan gets the job done this off-season.

#24 DPJ

DPJ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 636 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:24 PM

So the only point for a message board is to bitch. Now that I understand that, at least it explains why I find the message board to be the least valuable aspect of the TwinsDaily site.


No, but it's shining the light on the failures on just about every level this franchise is going through. I'm sorry if you wanna bury your head in the sand or plug your ears, but
there's a reason this team has been this bad the last couple years and I don't think myself of anyone else should apologize for focusing on it.

There's a good mix of neg and pos on this board, I think it's good for debate and good for a board to have both views.

#25 Ultima Ratio

Ultima Ratio

    Super Friend

  • Members
  • 1,749 posts
  • LocationAt my computer

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:27 PM

So why can't we just enjoy the improvement and enjoy the success, instead of advocating that we blow up the whole team and plan for 2015?


I agree with your sentiment about some of the negativity and constantly needing to mentally fiddle with trades/promotions/demotions/position changes et cetera. Though, I also believe that most folks on here share in the spirit of your post: we want the Twins to win and that means to continually improve at every position and improve every player fielding those positions. As to the title of you post, "Can't we just enjoy what we have?" I am enjoying the resurgence of production and winning attitude I see with many of our young and formally injured players. I, like most others, see a tremendous amount of work, smart trades and smart FA signing that must occur for this team to be a competitive playoff squad. I see us requiring three good to excellent SPs in order to win the division. Can we buy them all? I don't know, but I have very little faith that this front office is the one that can buy them all.
Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

#26 ChuckkJay

ChuckkJay

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 29 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:27 PM

I feel like the people who are complaining that the Twinsdaily message boards are "way to negative" have never ventured into an internet forum, blog or comments section before.


Spot on. Apparently, the creed of the Interweb (brought to you by Al Gore) forumsphere is:

The only way to appear sophisticated is to offer negative criticism. Positivity is viewed as uneducated and beneath those of us who are smart enough to know better.



#27 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,962 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:32 PM

There's plenty of complaining on this site as expected due to a losing club, but since when are trade suggestions a mark of negativity? Sure, poor ones leave a bad taste in our mouths, but a successful one gets people pretty pumped up. It's bittersweet losing a fan favorite, but getting upset about trade talk seems naive. Keeping a player from their rookie season until their retirement is rarely a good business move. I'll bet no one is still upset about trading Chuck Knoblauch except the Yankees.

#28 CRArko

CRArko

    Agent of SHIELD

  • Members
  • 1,736 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows.
  • Twitter: crarko

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:34 PM

I feel like the people who are complaining that the Twinsdaily message boards are "way to negative" have never ventured into an internet forum, blog or comments section before.


Nah, I ran one for a decade. Thankfully, it was technology and not sports related, so the focus was a whole lot different.

Certainly, the level here is much better than the Strib and several orders of magnitude higher than ESPN. No argument about that.

#29 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,052 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:35 PM

I'm pretty sure he is joking. At one point he was supposed to crash on my couch for a weekend here in NY for the playoff series.


Oh, I know the two of you don't really hate each other. Both of you just think the other is kinda dumb. :D

#30 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,180 posts

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:38 PM

No, but it's shining the light on the failures on just about every level this franchise is going through. I'm sorry if you wanna bury your head in the sand or plug your ears, but
there's a reason this team has been this bad the last couple years and I don't think myself of anyone else should apologize for focusing on it.

There's a good mix of neg and pos on this board, I think it's good for debate and good for a board to have both views.

I thought it was a little silly for one of the bloggers (aside from the big 5 on this board) to say this was his least favorite part of the site.