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Article: Behind Joel Zumaya's elbow blowout

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#1 Parker Hageman

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:18 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...s-elbow-blowout

#2 JeffB

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:30 PM

Parker, thanks for the analysis and images. I've been casually interested in pitching mechanics recently as you and other bloggers have posted detailed video, images and articles. Can you point out some images or articles online that show proper mechanics or counter examples to the inverted-W or inverted-V?

#3 Thrylos

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:58 PM

Inverted W :) haven't heard of that witch hunt thing since Mark Prior :) Alright, here is a picture of someone delivering a pitch, not only with the "inverted W" (kinda hard to see from that ankle) but while doing the splits on the mount.... Horrible mechanics? Horrible pitcher? Injury risk? Any guesses on who he is? (and don't try to read the flie name ;) )
TomSeaver.jpg

Edited by Thrylos, 26 February 2012 - 07:01 PM.

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#4 Joel

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:03 PM

For more on the inverted W, see http://www.chrisolea...eInvertedW.html .

#5 Parker Hageman

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:49 PM

@JeffB

The standard W is the motion that a majority of pitchers use. It depends on what you are looking for in terms of proper images - DrivelineBaseball.com has some excellent stuff and I'd highly recommend checking them out.

@thrylos98

(1) No, Tom Seaver did not throw with the Inverted W. Here's a video you can watch that shows a good angle of him from the center field camera. The Inverted W occurs when the pitching side elbow goes above the shoulder level. You will see that Seaver's pitching side elbow does not go above the shoulder line. He does do a significant amount of scap loading which has drawn criticisms but overall, if done properly, is a fine technique. What it boils down to is whether or not it disrupts timing.

(2) Apparently you don't follow baseball much as the Inverted W was mentioned constantly with the Stephen Strasburg injury.

#6 Thrylos

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:27 PM


.

@thrylos98

(1) No, Tom Seaver did not throw with the Inverted W. Here's a video you can watch that shows a good angle of him from the center field camera. The Inverted W occurs when the pitching side elbow goes above the shoulder level. You will see that Seaver's pitching side elbow does not go above the shoulder line. He does do a significant amount of scap loading which has drawn criticisms but overall, if done properly, is a fine technique. What it boils down to is whether or not it disrupts timing.

(2) Apparently you don't follow baseball much as the Inverted W was mentioned constantly with the Stephen Strasburg injury.


alright ;) busted. I do not know who that Strasburg guy is and I quit following baseball since Walter Johnson hanged them :)

but I looked at that video (great video btw) and it is so darn hard to take screenshots from youtube, esp when Seaver is throwing 100 mph heat out there.
But check this out:

6787570446_439df793bd_o.jpg



and it is at the far end of his delivery (after he does the splits) but it clearly has the path of the ball pretty much marked... See that smiley face? That, my friend, is an inverted W delivery....
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#7 jimbo92107

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:28 PM

I think the team should build through their minor league system, for better or for worse. If you're looking at 80 wins at best, what's the point of bringing in a bunch of re-treads from all over the league? Better to show the guys in the minors that they really have a shot. To me, this cattle call from all over the league must be pretty demoralizing to the players in the Twins system trying to work their way up.

#8 Alex

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:52 PM

alright ;) busted. I do not know who that Strasburg guy is and I quit following baseball since Walter Johnson hanged them :)

but I looked at that video (great video btw) and it is so darn hard to take screenshots from youtube, esp when Seaver is throwing 100 mph heat out there.
But check this out:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]214[/ATTACH]


and it is at the far end of his delivery (after he does the splits) but it clearly has the path of the ball pretty much marked... See that smiley face? That, my friend, is an inverted W delivery....


I guess I don't see it from this picture (I'd actually expect the ball to start lower in an inverted W, but couldn't confirm that without a similar path from a known inverted "W.") I don't see the elbow going above the shoulder in the video either, and I was able to pause it at a better time as well.

Great analysis from Parker, imo.

#9 Parker Hageman

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:05 AM

@thrylos

and it is at the far end of his delivery (after he does the splits) but it clearly has the path of the ball pretty much marked... See that smiley face? That, my friend, is an inverted W delivery....


I think you have some confusion as to what an Inverted W delivery actually is. The description is based on when a pitcher breaks his hands from the glove and picks up the ball in the t-position, not at the end of the delivery. Tom Seaver is not an example of a pitcher who threw with an Inverted W delivery.

#10 destes

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:22 PM

maybe some fresh blood in the system IE Terry Doyle can consume some serious innings