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Berardino: Twins build Culture Club with five low-cost veterans

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#21 Thrylos

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:54 PM

 

But if I were on the 40-man, and if my birthdate were earlier than about 1990*, I would be irritated, I think.

 

* Notice I said "and". :)

 

Irritated why? The "leaders" of an 103 loss team were not good leaders.Instead of irritated, they need to go, starting with that Dozier...

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#22 Riverbrian

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:12 PM

I'm a big believer in chemistry and I do believe that anything is possible in this great game and I don't want to sound dismissive with an idea that I actually believe in. 

 

However... I want to state that it was our veterans that were the main cause of 2016... not the youth and I'm growing tired of any narrative that suggests otherwise.

 

When you sort by At Bats... 7 out of the top 10 were veteran ball players. When you sort by Games Started... 6 out of the top 8 were veteran pitchers. And... We were not overflowing with youth in the bullpen either so we can't hang our bullpen issues on Chargois or Light.

 

It wasn't youth that brought us down... Molitor willingly went down with the ship of veteran leaders. Polanco and Kepler were watching on the bench and consistently not playing while our vets had us out of the race by the end of April. 

 

If we are bringing in Veterans to help teach our youth. I think those veterans should probably start by teaching our veterans since those are the guys that Molly will play. 

 

If you want to change this type of culture. You do it by demanding performance. You do it be raising expectation. You won't get there by giving vets a pass and then complaining about the youth. It's time to actually sing for your supper. 

 

Instead of going down with the ship in 2017... Toss them overboard until you find a core of performers that can keep the ship afloat. 

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#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:44 PM

More veterans than youth... Which pitchers are being mentored?
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#24 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:06 PM

I wish for once the press would actually hold this club accountable rather than just being a glorified PR arm of the team.
This off-season has been a D at best IMO, they barely improved the 2017 team (Castro is a decent signing) and haven't managed to make the 2018-2020 teams better (Failure to make any trades) like I guess it's nice they signed a few veterans on the cheap, and culture IS important, but honestly, they are just putting lipstick on a pig at this point IMO with articles like this.
 
It's not poorly written or anything, just frustrating this is the kind of stuff that is getting written leading up to the season (not about the big trade that was made or the impact signing that should have happened etc)

On the contrary, I think it tells us Levine and Falvey think there is no leadership potential within our young core of guys. That tells me a lot, because I happen to disagree 10000%
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#25 Dozier's Glorious Hair

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:07 PM

 

Irritated why? The "leaders" of an 103 loss team were not good leaders.Instead of irritated, they need to go, starting with that Dozier...

 

I will never forgive Dozier for leading the Twins pitching staff to that 5.08 ERA. Crappy leadership, Brian.;)   

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#26 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:19 PM

Irritated why? The "leaders" of an 103 loss team were not good leaders.Instead of irritated, they need to go, starting with that Dozier...

Dozier was the only veteran still standing when the Twins started playing good baseball in late July. Why single him out?
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When I hear a pitcher is throwing a “simulated game” my first thought is that he repeated the opposing lineup 10,000 times. - Jonathan Judge

#27 Thrylos

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:01 PM

 

Dozier was the only veteran still standing when the Twins started playing good baseball in late July. Why single him out?

 

Because he is part of the problem, like Santana, Kintzler and all other veterans, plus he is tradable.

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#28 DJSim22

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:36 PM

Admittedly, I'm far more interested in parts of baseball outside of metrics than most here.I find that the front office brought in so many veterans interesting for two reasons: 1.I think they want some vets who will get on the vets we have currently.At least this is how I've been reading articles, tweets, ect.2. Like I am, I don't they are blown away with the guys coming up.Or at least they don't think guys will be knocking down the door this year.That's my reading of the tea leaves. 

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#29 DaveW

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:58 PM

How is dozier part of the problem??

 "1 out of 17 ain't bad"


#30 Thrylos

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:04 PM

 

How is dozier part of the problem??

 

He was one of the "leaders" in the 103 L team, which means that a. his leadership skills were lacking by 1. being interested more in individual vs team achievement or 2.. lacking the ability to inspire/move/take his teammates on his back and strive for a winning season.

 

That's why...

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#31 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:02 PM

He was one of the "leaders" in the 103 L team, which means that a. his leadership skills were lacking by 1. being interested more in individual vs team achievement or 2.. lacking the ability to inspire/move/take his teammates on his back and strive for a winning season.

That's why...

I'm sorry, Thrylos, but you have no inside knowledge of this whatsoever. It's your opinion based solely on the fact Dozier had a career year and the results over all didn't match. That means and proves absolutely diddlysquat. Yes, I said diddlysquat. You have no idea what Dozier tried and didn't try. And there were 25 other guys on that team, too, yet it's all on Dozier? And further, everything I have read about the kind of person Dozier is, none of it was ever 'me first.' It was a losing team, period. That is not on Dozier alone one iota, maybe not even a part iota. I know you just want everyone and everything gone that Terry Ryan ever touched, smelled, spoke to or saw, but that honestly is not the way forward and doesn't taint things moving forward at all.
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#32 Dozier's Glorious Hair

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:06 PM

Felix Hernandez has been the leader of a lot of bad Mariners teams. They were bad because:

 

( A ) He's a selfish player
( B ) He couldn't inspire his teammates to win
( C ) The teams were just plain terrible and there was really nothing he could do about it

 

( C ) is probably the correct answer... although if the Mariners, after their 101-loss season in 2010, decided to blame their "bad leader" for it and wished to dump him onto some other team (like, say, the Twins), I wouldn't have talked them out of it.:)

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#33 Thrylos

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:25 PM

 

I'm sorry, Thrylos, but you have no inside knowledge of this whatsoever. It's your opinion based solely on the fact Dozier had a career year and the results over all didn't match. That means and proves absolutely diddlysquat. Yes, I said diddlysquat. You have no idea what Dozier tried and didn't try. And there were 25 other guys on that team, too, yet it's all on Dozier? And further, everything I have read about the kind of person Dozier is, none of it was ever 'me first.' It was a losing team, period. That is not on Dozier alone one iota, maybe not even a part iota. I know you just want everyone and everything gone that Terry Ryan ever touched, smelled, spoke to or saw, but that honestly is not the way forward and doesn't taint things moving forward at all.

 

 

We all have one piece of data:

 

103 losses.

 

Undisputable, no?

 

Were the leaders of that team effective? 

 

I'd say no, and I bet that would be the answer (opinion) of 99% of the people out there

 

Was Dozier a leader?It really does not matter.If he were, he was ineffective (and he should go) and if he were not, he is selfish (all those home runs, he better care about leading the team to a better record) and he should go.

 

No middle way about this one

 

1-0-3.

FACT

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#34 Thrylos

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:28 PM

 

 

Felix Hernandez has been the leader of a lot of bad Mariners teams. They were bad because:

 

( A ) He's a selfish player
( B ) He couldn't inspire his teammates to win
( C ) The teams were just plain terrible and there was really nothing he could do about it

 

( C ) is probably the correct answer... although if the Mariners, after their 101-loss season in 2010, decided to blame their "bad leader" for it and wished to dump him onto some other team (like, say, the Twins), I wouldn't have talked them out of it.:)

 

Felix Hernandez killed himself and 2 people (who are suing his estate, btw) while driving his boat high on cocaine and way above the legal alcohol limit (Facts).

 

I'd say A was likely the correct answer here...

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#35 Dozier's Glorious Hair

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:32 PM

 

Felix Hernandez killed himself and 2 people (who are suing his estate, btw) while driving his boat high on cocaine and way above the legal alcohol limit (Facts).

 

I'd say A was likely the correct answer here...

 

That wasn't Felix Hernandez.

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#36 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:32 PM

I think you are getting your players confused
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#37 Willihammer

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:32 PM

tenor.gif

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Well, there's that.

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#38 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:36 PM

We all have one piece of data:
 
103 losses.
 
Undisputable, no?
 
Were the leaders of that team effective? 
 
I'd say no, and I bet that would be the answer (opinion) of 99% of the people out there
 
Was Dozier a leader?It really does not matter.If he were, he was ineffective (and he should go) and if he were not, he is selfish (all those home runs, he better care about leading the team to a better record) and he should go.
 
No middle way about this one
 
1-0-3.
FACT


The only fact in there is that the Twins lost 103 games. There is no correlation that the fault of that lies on Dozier. None. You are not spouting facts here when you go beyond that ... only opinion. Do not mix the two up. You don't know diddlysquat at what leadership there was or wasn't and from whom, so to put this on Dozier is just you looking for a scapegoat and throwing out accusations without any proof whatsoever.

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#39 Rhino and Compass

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:20 PM

If these 5 are really a new Culture Club for the Twins, I can only ask... Derek Falvey, do you really want to hurt me? Do you REALLY want to make me cry?

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#40 HitInAPinch

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:58 AM

I guess I'll wait for year 2 of the new regime before I really start ripping them. 

And then,Ooooooo......

It's not my fault !