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Article: Tyler Jay Shifting To The Bullpen (Minor League Notebook)

tyler jay lachlan wells aaron whitefield mitchell kranson alex kirilloff
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#221 gunnarthor

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:47 AM

 

Santiago will have positive regression if he is allowed pitch in Anaheim's ballpark and in front of their defense. I mean, he had home run issues in Anaheim. I think a sub-5.00 ERA from him is unlikely.

Well, we'll see.  I do think that if he's running out a 5.00 ERA after ten starts (at the most), we'd see him moved/cut for Mejia.  But I don't think we'd see another 20 starts like that like we had with Nolasco last year.


#222 drjim

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:48 AM

 

Santiago will have positive regression if he is allowed pitch in Anaheim's ballpark and in front of their defense. I mean, he had home run issues in Anaheim. I think a sub-5.00 ERA from him is unlikely.

 

He's only had one season with an ERA above 4. I understand your point, but unlikely to have a sub-5.00 seems like a stretch, and is selling Santiago a little short.

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#223 Bob Sacamento

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:57 AM

 

I would still be disappointed that jay was being moved off of starting already, but I can't speak for others. A decision can be both correct, and disappointing...

Hey I'm in the same boat with you, I'd prefer to see him fail first as a starter before sending him to the pen but I'm that way with most prospect SP.  But I do see what the FO is trying to do, as Jay could be pitching in the big leagues now in a relief capacity.

 

 

BA 2017 Scouting Report on Jay

With his mid-90s fastball and hard, late-breaking 88-92 mph slider, Jay has two big league quality pitches that give him a high floor as a potential closer. As a starter, he features a four-pitch mix, flashing an above-average curveball and mixing in a changeup that has proven effective against righthanded hitters. Evaluators question whether the modest-framed Jay has the physicality to sustain his stuff in extended work. Though electric in short stints, he wasn’t as sharp the second and third time through lineups in 2016. Whether Jay will ever build that durability is a divisive topic among scouts. The Twins remain committed to developing Jay as a starter, and he should return to Chattanooga in 2017. However, with the major league club in need of arms, he could at least begin his major league career out of the bullpen

 

 

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#224 KirbyDome89

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:25 AM

 

If he can't make it as a starter the same issue would follow him to the bullpen and hence the same results

So failed starter = failed reliever? 

 

Couldn't disagree more with that take.

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#225 TheLeviathan

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:46 PM

 

We don't have anyone - today - that has #1/2 potential but that's somewhat rare. Berrios was our last guy with that kind of ceiling and a lot of people had him pegged as more a #3 type. But Gonsalves, Romero, Stewart and Jay were all on somebody's top 100 list just this offseason. And even with Jay moving to the pen, they still have some upside there (plus Thorpe and some pretty young arms in the low minors that are too far away today). I'm bummed that Jay is being moved but at the same time I think the angst is a bit overblown. We know that not every draft pick will reach it's ceiling although we don't know which ones won't.

 

I'm not hung up on whether they are a 1/2, I'm hung up on how many guys are anywhere near being viable contributors to the big league rotation in the next 2 years.  

 

Prior to this move it was Gonsalves, Romero, and Jay.  (Stewart is a ways off, if even worth talking about)  We're down 1/3 of that already.  And another 1/3 of that is having a shoulder flare up.

 

We are burning service time on some of our best young players and that is our situation for young pitching.  I'd say the angst is appropriate.


#226 jsteve96

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 12:28 AM

Jay and Rosario moving to the pen convinces me the Twins will never bring up a good LH starter, Gonsalves will be moved to the pen before ya know it folks.


#227 Oldgoat_MN

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:16 AM

 

So failed starter = failed reliever? 

 

Couldn't disagree more with that take.

That's not at all what he said.

Alex Meyer has issues on the mound. His WHIP in MLB has not yet ever been acceptable.

Moving him to the pen is not going to keep him from giving up hit and walks.

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#228 KirbyDome89

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 09:09 AM

 

That's not at all what he said.

Alex Meyer has issues on the mound. His WHIP in MLB has not yet ever been acceptable.

Moving him to the pen is not going to keep him from giving up hit and walks.

"Moving him to the pen is not going to keep him from giving up hit and walks"

 

So then its exactly what was said? Coming in from the bullpen for one inning, throwing your 2 plus pitches, and hopefully facing 3 batters is different than trying to work through a lineup 3-4 times as a starter. Very different. I would urge you to take a look at a list of successful relievers who struggled as starting pitchers or if you don't want to do any digging just call to mind the last few dominant relievers the Twins had. 


#229 The Wise One

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:41 AM

 

So failed starter = failed reliever? 

 

Couldn't disagree more with that take.

What would make him a failed starter would make him fail as a reliever. If he can't locate his pitches as a starter, he won't  locate any better as a reliever. If the 100 mph fastball is hittable because he throws it over the plate, 102 mph will suffer the same fate.Meyer is a case where a failed starter would equal a failed reliever. 


#230 The Wise One

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:14 AM

 

"Moving him to the pen is not going to keep him from giving up hit and walks"

 

So then its exactly what was said? Coming in from the bullpen for one inning, throwing your 2 plus pitches, and hopefully facing 3 batters is different than trying to work through a lineup 3-4 times as a starter. Very different. I would urge you to take a look at a list of successful relievers who struggled as starting pitchers or if you don't want to do any digging just call to mind the last few dominant relievers the Twins had. 

You would have a valid point except the MLB hitters were getting to him first time through the rotation, not the 2/3 time through. 

Perkins improved his fb velocity being a reliever . I can't recall anystarter who had a plus plus fastball and slider but had control problems really succeeding as a reliever. The struggling starter becomes a better pitcher as a reliever because they end up with an above average fb rather than a below average one.


#231 KirbyDome89

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 10:09 AM

 

What would make him a failed starter would make him fail as a reliever. If he can't locate his pitches as a starter, he won't  locate any better as a reliever. If the 100 mph fastball is hittable because he throws it over the plate, 102 mph will suffer the same fate.Meyer is a case where a failed starter would equal a failed reliever. 

Meh, there is a big difference between trying to paint corners with a 4 pitch mix and throwing your two plus pitches out of the pen. 

 

You would have a valid point except the MLB hitters were getting to him first time through the rotation, not the 2/3 time through. 

Perkins improved his fb velocity being a reliever . I can't recall anystarter who had a plus plus fastball and slider but had control problems really succeeding as a reliever. The struggling starter becomes a better pitcher as a reliever because they end up with an above average fb rather than a below average one.

Like I said, check some former Twins relievers, namely Joe Nathan's K/BB during his minor league career. He isn't throwing max velocity as a starter. No pitcher has the stamina to pitch that way over the course of a game. Moving to the pen would add mph to his fastball. 


#232 Mike Sixel

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 02:45 PM

KLAW talked about Jay for some length today.

 

Mostly he is surprised that the new leadership didn't see him in person some before deciding, and in general that it happened so quickly. Not ripping them, just surprised.

I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#233 Steve Lein

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 03:09 PM

 

BA 2017 Scouting Report on Jay
Quote
With his mid-90s fastball and hard, late-breaking 88-92 mph slider, Jay has two big league quality pitches that give him a high floor as a potential closer. As a starter, he features a four-pitch mix, flashing an above-average curveball and mixing in a changeup that has proven effective against righthanded hitters. Evaluators question whether the modest-framed Jay has the physicality to sustain his stuff in extended work. Though electric in short stints, he wasn’t as sharp the second and third time through lineups in 2016. Whether Jay will ever build that durability is a divisive topic among scouts. The Twins remain committed to developing Jay as a starter, and he should return to Chattanooga in 2017. However, with the major league club in need of arms, he could at least begin his major league career out of the bullpen

 

I like how I got ridiculed for saying similar things as the scouting report here does. I was told my "bullpen stalwart" floor was a ridiculous by several! ;)

Scouting Report: Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 45, Speed: 45. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but will sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)




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