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ABWII is claimed off of waivers... Again!

adam brett walker abwii
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#41 old nurse

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 03:46 AM

 

Hey the kid is playing baseball is all I know.  Anything can happen from there.  

 

Crazy part is we are talking about a guy who just left the worst team in baseball and got DFA'd off the 40 man (Twins).  3 teams actually picked him up and now he has a chance to impress a new employee.  Go figure.  It's not like the Twins performed better by keeping Walker off the MLB roster.  Like all lost prospects - Maybe a new voice helps with development.  We will see how Buxton, Kepler, Rosario, and Vargas progress this spring with a new hitting coach.  I pray well.

They might have lost more games with a player that strikes out in every at bat


#42 spinowner

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 08:47 AM

He is currently on the roster of the Louisville Bats, Cincinnati's AAA affiliate.

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#43 mlhouse

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 10:40 AM

THe only issue I have with Adam Walker is that the Twins never gave him a chance, all the while giving ABs to guys OFs like Shane Robinson, Logan Schafer, Darin Mastroianni,  Jordan Schafer, and Sam Fuld.  Walker showed a lot of strikeouts in the minors, but then he had consecutive seasons of 27, 25, 31, and 27 home runs.  If you combine the total minor league careers of all 5 of those guys you get 148 over a total 48 minor league seasons, just 24 more than  Walker did in 5 seasons.  

 

I get it, there were a lot of questions about Walker and his ability to play at the MLB level, but then with those other five there were a lot fo answers that they absolutely could not.  So, why not give the guy 100 plate appearances at the major league level to see if he could show enough power and OBP to compensate for the strike outs.  I agree that he almost certainly would fail, with only a 10% chance of being a 700+ OPS hitter at best, but then they never even tried.

 

If I were a draftable player I would hate to be drafted by the Twins.  They are going to start you in the lowest levels of the minors (ask yourself why Elizabethton wins their leagues regular season/title so often) and then slowly move you up the ladder even if you perform really well.  They brought in, and continue to bring in, cast offs from other teams that they advance before you and who suck in their time with the Twins.  Of the 5 OFs that I mentioned above, only Fuld had an OPS with the Twins above .700, .732 in 2014 vs. his career of .632. Jordan Schafer, .640 (career .615), Mastroianni .573 (career .551), Robinson .621 (career .592), Logan Schafer .660 (careeer .611). I would have rather watched Adam Brett Walker have a partial season with the Twins with a .600 OPS and a few launched homers than those stiffs.  

 

But that is not the Twins Way. 


#44 ashburyjohn

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 04:17 PM

THe only issue I have with Adam Walker is that the Twins never gave him a chance, all the while giving ABs to guys OFs like Shane Robinson, Logan Schafer, Darin Mastroianni,  Jordan Schafer, and Sam Fuld. 

I have some sympathy with your POV, but the comps you chose share a certain element in common: on defense each was considered passable in CF, at least on a short-term/backup basis, or better. ABWIII is purely a corner OF candidate, and from what I heard not very well regarded in even that limited role (the little I saw him in person I don't recall anything one way or the other). The standards for hitting are a lot higher on the corners.

 

It would be a bit like lobbying for a 3B prospect, and pointing to a succession of SS with worse batting numbers who were tried in preference.

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#45 mlhouse

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 05:39 PM

 

I have some sympathy with your POV, but the comps you chose share a certain element in common: on defense each was considered passable in CF, at least on a short-term/backup basis, or better. ABWIII is purely a corner OF candidate, and from what I heard not very well regarded in even that limited role (the little I saw him in person I don't recall anything one way or the other). The standards for hitting are a lot higher on the corners.

 

It would be a bit like lobbying for a 3B prospect, and pointing to a succession of SS with worse batting numbers who were tried in preference.

 

But their defensive contribution was extremely limited for a team that was losing 95 or more games a season.  A guy that could be a regular contributor, even a long shot candidate as that, should have priority in major league development to 30 year old medicocrities that other teams already passed over.

 

That we are continuing this trend with our catching and pitching is very discouraging.


#46 Thrylos

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 05:59 PM

 

 

 

 

Still felt Walker should've gotten a call and a looksee, just because he was a solid minor league guy who advanced each season and did what was asked and deserved th tiny bit of major league glory (and the bump in pay).

 

Solid? .183/.219/.416 in 54 games this season after he was demoted to AA. He deserves an opportunity in the Independent Leagues.He will be a solid contributor there.

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#47 DJSim22

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 09:34 PM

 

THe only issue I have with Adam Walker is that the Twins never gave him a chance, all the while giving ABs to guys OFs like Shane Robinson, Logan Schafer, Darin Mastroianni,  Jordan Schafer, and Sam Fuld.  Walker showed a lot of strikeouts in the minors, but then he had consecutive seasons of 27, 25, 31, and 27 home runs.  If you combine the total minor league careers of all 5 of those guys you get 148 over a total 48 minor league seasons, just 24 more than  Walker did in 5 seasons.  

 

I get it, there were a lot of questions about Walker and his ability to play at the MLB level, but then with those other five there were a lot fo answers that they absolutely could not.  So, why not give the guy 100 plate appearances at the major league level to see if he could show enough power and OBP to compensate for the strike outs.  I agree that he almost certainly would fail, with only a 10% chance of being a 700+ OPS hitter at best, but then they never even tried.

 

If I were a draftable player I would hate to be drafted by the Twins.  They are going to start you in the lowest levels of the minors (ask yourself why Elizabethton wins their leagues regular season/title so often) and then slowly move you up the ladder even if you perform really well.  They brought in, and continue to bring in, cast offs from other teams that they advance before you and who suck in their time with the Twins.  Of the 5 OFs that I mentioned above, only Fuld had an OPS with the Twins above .700, .732 in 2014 vs. his career of .632. Jordan Schafer, .640 (career .615), Mastroianni .573 (career .551), Robinson .621 (career .592), Logan Schafer .660 (careeer .611). I would have rather watched Adam Brett Walker have a partial season with the Twins with a .600 OPS and a few launched homers than those stiffs.  

 

But that is not the Twins Way. 

 

Those "stiffs" played a lot of center field.Walker is not a good defensive player at this level.If the Twins or any other team thought Walker could get even a .600 OPS, someone would have called him up by now.

 

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#48 mlhouse

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

 

Those "stiffs" played a lot of center field.Walker is not a good defensive player at this level.If the Twins or any other team thought Walker could get even a .600 OPS, someone would have called him up by now.

 

 

They were stiffs.  Again, most likely Walker would be a .600 OPS guy a the MLB level but those guys were too and they had ZERO chance to contribute to the long term future.  Center field or not, the Twins have wasted a lot of time running throw replacement level players in the hope of being "competitive".  While I doubt Walker hits enoug at the MLB level to make it work, I also did not run a team that had 95+ losses over a 6 year period.  So, obviously what the Twins management thought DID NOT WORK.


#49 spinowner

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 11:19 AM

 

They were stiffs.  Again, most likely Walker would be a .600 OPS guy a the MLB level but those guys were too and they had ZERO chance to contribute to the long term future.  Center field or not, the Twins have wasted a lot of time running throw replacement level players in the hope of being "competitive".  While I doubt Walker hits enoug at the MLB level to make it work, I also did not run a team that had 95+ losses over a 6 year period.  So, obviously what the Twins management thought DID NOT WORK.

My opinion is that ABWII would not have come close to doing what Vargas has done offensively and he would not be better defensively than any Twins outfielder since Josh Willingham. I don't think he would have improved any of the Twins teams of the last 3 years.


#50 mlhouse

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 11:23 AM

 

My opinion is that ABWII would not have come close to doing what Vargas has done offensively and he would not be better defensively than any Twins outfielder since Josh Willingham. I don't think he would have improved any of the Twins teams of the last 3 years.

 

 

I don't disagree with you.  But, at the same time we had a guy that hit more than 25 home runs a season each step of the way up the minors, and he had enough OBP to at least give him a chance to see if he could adjust to major league pitching.  That we gave other out fielders with ZERO chance of improving the team opportunity over Walker demonstrates why this team lost all of those games.  


#51 Thrylos

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 11:31 AM

 

I don't disagree with you.  But, at the same time we had a guy that hit more than 25 home runs a season each step of the way up the minors, and he had enough OBP to at least give him a chance to see if he could adjust to major league pitching.  That we gave other out fielders with ZERO chance of improving the team opportunity over Walker demonstrates why this team lost all of those games.  

 

Have you heard of Mike Hessman?Career leader in HRs in the minors with 433 (and a.233/.316/.466 slash line compared to Walker's .246/.303/.480 career line ), career 5 cups of coffee with 3 different teams in the majors, never more than 32 games a season and with a career .188/.272/.422 slash and 79 K in 250 PA (31.6 K%)

 

Hessman is ABW's ceiling.Randy Ruiz was a better player than ABW is

Edited by Thrylos, 06 August 2017 - 11:32 AM.

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#52 Jham

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 12:12 PM

 

They were stiffs.  Again, most likely Walker would be a .600 OPS guy a the MLB level but those guys were too and they had ZERO chance to contribute to the long term future.  Center field or not, the Twins have wasted a lot of time running throw replacement level players in the hope of being "competitive".  While I doubt Walker hits enoug at the MLB level to make it work, I also did not run a team that had 95+ losses over a 6 year period.  So, obviously what the Twins management thought DID NOT WORK.

I don't think you can say Walker had the ceiling of a 4th or 5th outfielder, then call him a potential piece of the future.  That type of player is constantly available through shopping other organization's farm systems or for a song on the FA market, much like the players you referenced.  IE your bench guys should be cheap and replaceable and by definition not part of your future.  Why not keep ABWII in the minors where he could try to work out the kinks in his game as opposed to bringing him up where there is no margin for error?  

I don't think they would have been wrong to give him a sip, and I don't think they were wrong to allow him to work at a lower level.  

Mostly, I think many of us can't figure out why anyone would be annoyed either way.
 

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#53 mlhouse

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 12:45 PM

 

Have you heard of Mike Hessman?Career leader in HRs in the minors with 433 (and a.233/.316/.466 slash line compared to Walker's .246/.303/.480 career line ), career 5 cups of coffee with 3 different teams in the majors, never more than 32 games a season and with a career .188/.272/.422 slash and 79 K in 250 PA (31.6 K%)

 

Hessman is ABW's ceiling.Randy Ruiz was a better player than ABW is

 

 

I don't think you can say Walker had the ceiling of a 4th or 5th outfielder, then call him a potential piece of the future.  That type of player is constantly available through shopping other organization's farm systems or for a song on the FA market, much like the players you referenced.  IE your bench guys should be cheap and replaceable and by definition not part of your future.  Why not keep ABWII in the minors where he could try to work out the kinks in his game as opposed to bringing him up where there is no margin for error?  

I don't think they would have been wrong to give him a sip, and I don't think they were wrong to allow him to work at a lower level.  

Mostly, I think many of us can't figure out why anyone would be annoyed either way.
 

 

 

Sorry, but you don't have any certainty in any of the answers.  I personally do not think that he had much of a chance to make it.  The point is that he was given ZERO chance while the team was losing 95+ games and lacking power hitting alternatives.  

 

While the Mike Hessman story is really touching an all there are two points that you ignore.

 

1.  While they were DEVELOPING as players Adam Brett Walker had way better stats than Hessman.  Higher OBP and higher slugging.  Hessman got better OBP and overall OPS numbers as he became a minor league veteran.  

 

2.  Hessman got a chance to play at the major league level.  His controlling club moved him through the system, and despite half of the seasons he was in the minors he had a sub .700 OPS they moved him up. The Twins, despite their lack of talent and the ridiculouos players they brought in to play OF never gave Walker even a September call up.  If he struck out in every AB, something that would not be surprising, big deal.  

 

3.  I would have preferred they give Walker a chance to strike out in every plate appearance to giving those known replacement level players those ABs.  

 

4.  AS far as "who cares", Walker isn't that big of a point except it demonstrates how the team was managed and is a symptom of why the Twins team has spent so much time, and still is, rebuilding into a competitive team which still seems years away.

Edited by mlhouse, 06 August 2017 - 12:50 PM.


#54 Thrylos

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 07:47 PM

 

 

 

 

3.  I would have preferred they give Walker a chance to strike out in every plate appearance to giving those known replacement level players those ABs. 

 

Walker is at or below replacement level.And his best defensive position is DH.I cannot see how a Twins' fan getting upset about Walker not getting called up and making one of the worst defensive teams ever last season, even worse.

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#55 mlhouse

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 08:33 PM

 

Walker is at or below replacement level.And his best defensive position is DH.I cannot see how a Twins' fan getting upset about Walker not getting called up and making one of the worst defensive teams ever last season, even worse.

 

I find it hilarious that someone uses the word "angry" to describe posts on a message board.  I have very clearly outlined my position.  I think Walker is just a representation of the Twins, particularly the previous management group, preference for bringing in mediocre at best replacement players from outside the organization rather than promote from within.  

 

That this is still a problem with the current front office is very troubling.


#56 drjim

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:23 AM

 

I find it hilarious that someone uses the word "angry" to describe posts on a message board.  I have very clearly outlined my position.  I think Walker is just a representation of the Twins, particularly the previous management group, preference for bringing in mediocre at best replacement players from outside the organization rather than promote from within.  

 

That this is still a problem with the current front office is very troubling.

 

It's a pretty common move in baseball to bring in a mediocre veteran over promoting a worse internal option.

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#57 mlhouse

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 12:16 PM

 

It's a pretty common move in baseball to bring in a mediocre veteran over promoting a worse internal option.

 

 

Who knew he was worse???? The fired front office?


#58 luckylager

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 12:21 PM

 

Who knew he was worse???? The fired front office?

And every other team that picked him up and subsequently released him. 

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#59 mlhouse

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 12:24 PM

 

And every other team that picked him up and subsequently released him. 

 

 

They most likely are right.  But a team that loses 90-103 games over a 6 year stretch needs to plug in prospects like Walker to see if they can fill a role.  I have not attachment to Adam Brett Walker, and I don't think he would have been a succesful MLB player.  But, he had power and a reasonable OBP, the Twins should have given him PA's over those other rejects to see if he had a chance.  This was a symptom of the Twins during this rebuild and it is continuing today with players like Mitch Garver sitting in AAA while we play replacement level 34 year old guys at his position.


#60 Shaitan

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 12:44 PM

 

THe only issue I have with Adam Walker is that the Twins never gave him a chance, all the while giving ABs to guys OFs like Shane Robinson, Logan Schafer, Darin Mastroianni,  Jordan Schafer, and Sam Fuld.  Walker showed a lot of strikeouts in the minors, but then he had consecutive seasons of 27, 25, 31, and 27 home runs.  If you combine the total minor league careers of all 5 of those guys you get 148 over a total 48 minor league seasons, just 24 more than  Walker did in 5 seasons.  

 

I get it, there were a lot of questions about Walker and his ability to play at the MLB level, but then with those other five there were a lot fo answers that they absolutely could not.  So, why not give the guy 100 plate appearances at the major league level to see if he could show enough power and OBP to compensate for the strike outs.  I agree that he almost certainly would fail, with only a 10% chance of being a 700+ OPS hitter at best, but then they never even tried.

 

If I were a draftable player I would hate to be drafted by the Twins.  They are going to start you in the lowest levels of the minors (ask yourself why Elizabethton wins their leagues regular season/title so often) and then slowly move you up the ladder even if you perform really well.  They brought in, and continue to bring in, cast offs from other teams that they advance before you and who suck in their time with the Twins.  Of the 5 OFs that I mentioned above, only Fuld had an OPS with the Twins above .700, .732 in 2014 vs. his career of .632. Jordan Schafer, .640 (career .615), Mastroianni .573 (career .551), Robinson .621 (career .592), Logan Schafer .660 (careeer .611). I would have rather watched Adam Brett Walker have a partial season with the Twins with a .600 OPS and a few launched homers than those stiffs.  

 

But that is not the Twins Way. 

He was in A or maybe AA when the Twins played the 5 OF players you mentioned.




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