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Article: Falvey, Levine Well-Suited To Solve Roster Riddles

derek falvey thad levine miguel sano jorge polanco carlos santana
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#21 ken

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 02:51 PM

http://www.fangraphs...innesota-twins/

 

Here's a 2014 Fangraphs scouting report saying RF or first is probably where Sano will end up.Unless we are also considering Fangraphs prospect evaluations horrible, the Twins decision to move him to the outfield can't be considered a crazy.Sano's lack of prep and gaining weight is more responsible for the failure than the actual move.Hopefully he works harder at being a competent third baseman this offseason.

 

Overall it's a very interesting scouting report on Sano.Questions if his walk rate will continue (15% in 2015, down to 10% in 2016 and 7.5% for second half of 2016) and his weight issues.

 

 

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#22 HitInAPinch

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 03:00 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Sano's move to right was because Plouffe was at 3rd and Torii Hunter was gone?And then Plouffe got hurt and Sano moved back to 3rd. 

His fielding % at 3rd was .896, RF .962.I'm betting there's a better stat to use than that,just don't know what it is. 

 

I do know that Sano in RF took some adventurous routes to balls hit over his head that did not count as errors.

Sano also does some similar things at 3rd:a few prat falls and a bonk on the head.

 

Anyway, Plouffe by all accounts is gone and that Kepler kid is a lock for RF.Happy Days!

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#23 HitInAPinch

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 03:02 PM

 

#1 Riddle they must solve:
 

"Why is Target Field so hot?"

 

All the fans left.  

hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=168&h=94&stc

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It's not my fault !


#24 jimmer

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 03:09 PM

 

http://www.fangraphs...innesota-twins/

 

Here's a 2014 Fangraphs scouting report saying RF or first is probably where Sano will end up.Unless we are also considering Fangraphs prospect evaluations horrible, the Twins decision to move him to the outfield can't be considered a crazy.Sano's lack of prep and gaining weight is more responsible for the failure than the actual move.Hopefully he works harder at being a competent third baseman this offseason.

 

Overall it's a very interesting scouting report on Sano.Questions if his walk rate will continue (15% in 2015, down to 10% in 2016 and 7.5% for second half of 2016) and his weight issues.

Actually what it says is some scouts feel he will move to RF or 1B.  Fangraphs scouts didn't say it, nor did they say they agree with the scouts that did or say it's a good idea.  They also say one reason is his defensive problems at 3B (lack of quick first step and arm accuracy) would cause the move, not that his skills said he should play there.

 

And last I look, when spring training happened, and he was 270 or more pounds, they continued with the plan instead of saying, 'um, he didn't lose 20-30 pounds, he gained weight (or stayed even), so it's probably not a good idea to proceed.'  Instead, they carried on.  See, here's a guy who has never played the OF, ever, and now you want a guy who has never had to judge routes to fly balls at any professional level to maneuver that weight out there, changing routes having to stop all that weight and re-direct and having to do it at the major league level.

 

It was a horrible plan and not one person is saying it was just because of his weight that it was a bad idea.  

Edited by jimmer, 28 October 2016 - 03:10 PM.


#25 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 07:33 PM

The new FO has to worry about things like attendance as well as how ownership looks. If they bench Mauer, a lot of casual fans won't be as interested and benching him suggests ownership wasted 40m+ dollars. I doubt the FO is going to make those kind of moves early in their run when they have other things to focus on. And, as bad as Mauer was, he wasn't a complete black hole and it's a pretty open question if Vargas would be better.


I think the days of Mauer selling even a single ticket are long gone.
A handful of guys in baseball sell tickets by themselves, if that.
If the new FO is putting fan input ahead of actual evaluation then nothing matters because we are doomed.
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#26 Jordan1212

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 07:44 PM

I can't wait for falvey to make the right move after this season and hire dougie fresh as manager that's all I gotta say

#27 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 07:51 PM

I can't wait for falvey to make the right move after this season and hire dougie fresh as manager that's all I gotta say



I like Dougie Alphabet, and I actually wanted him to be the hire last time. But that was under the old country club rules.
I think Falvey is going to aim a lot higher.
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#28 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 08:15 PM

Maddon puts people in new positions on a regular basis. The article suggests Cleveland was smart to move Santana not once but twice.However, the Twins are incompetent fools when they use out fo the box thinking.
 
Which player is more athletic, Sano or Schwarber? I would say Sano so difference does it make if Sano is bigger.Let's also remember the Twins and Sano had agreed that Sano would shed some weight.Some of you seem to forget that Sano's size is something that could have been relatively easily adjusted to better fix the position.There are a bunch of NFL players who would be much more athletic than alot of MLB corner outfielders so I just dont get how Sano's size should have disqualified him as a candidate to play a corner OF position.What's even more weird is the number of people who think Mauer or Plouffe who are both much slower than Sano should play OF.Somehow really slow is ok if you are not really big.

Did you check on Schwarber's performance in the NLCS last season?
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#29 Major League Ready

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 04:41 AM

 

Did you check on Schwarber's performance in the NLCS last season?

 

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.My point is that both players were unproven in the OF.Their bats warranted a shot.If Sano is more athletic than Schwaber, especially if Sano lost 30 lbs, why should Sano to the OF be dismissed because he is bigger? I think Jimmer hit the nail on the head.Their execution sucked but his size was not the problem. 
 

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#30 Mike Sixel

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 08:29 AM

Schwarber had played OF before. If the twins were considering it, why did sano never play there in the minors? That's my main issue, they did not best set him up for success, imo.

As for now? I try him at third for the first two months. If it doesn't look real, I either move him to DH full time, or part time with a bit of first sprinkled in.
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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#31 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 08:44 AM

No one ever says it, but at some point, we have to consider trading Sano.

 

Why?

 

He took a step back last year, and his natural position is going to be 1B, where Twins have a monster logjam.

 

Head case?Fielding liability?Strike-out percentage?Clubhouse cancer?

 

Everybody talks about his high ceiling, but what if there is no helium in the Sano balloon? 

 

Kid had a movie made about him at 16.That could be peaking early, or really, peaking prematurely.Will make last out of game at 3B, miss cutoff men, and generally look confused.

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#32 Teflon

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 10:44 AM

Finding pitchers who can put up Ks will help the defense immediately. Simple equation - for every nine putouts Dodger fielders had to make, Twins fielders had to make ten. Even if the Twins got to the same number of balls as the Dodgers fielders and fielded at the same level of competency, they were still destined to make ten percent more errors.

 

Now, put a bad fielding Twins defense on the field with a pitching staff that requires you to make ten percent more plays and you get the 2016 Twins. And the GM that thought that would work gets fired.


#33 gunnarthor

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 11:11 AM

 

Schwarber had played OF before. If the twins were considering it, why did sano never play there in the minors? That's my main issue, they did not best set him up for success, imo.

 

The reason they didn't play him in the OF in the minors was because he missed the entire 2014 season and his bat was ML ready by mid-2015.

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#34 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 11:21 AM

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.My point is that both players were unproven in the OF.Their bats warranted a shot.If Sano is more athletic than Schwaber, especially if Sano lost 30 lbs, why should Sano to the OF be dismissed because he is bigger? I think Jimmer hit the nail on the head.Their execution sucked but his size was not the problem.

i don't remember the context in which I commented on Schwarber so I apologize if I derailed another discussion you were having. The Cubs played the odds with Schwarber in left throughout 2015 and it all caught up with them in the postseason.
He measured the achievements of others by what they had accomplished, asking of them that they measure him by what he envisaged or planned.
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#35 DJSim22

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 10:43 AM

 

Schwarber had played OF before. If the twins were considering it, why did sano never play there in the minors? That's my main issue, they did not best set him up for success, imo.

As for now? I try him at third for the first two months. If it doesn't look real, I either move him to DH full time, or part time with a bit of first sprinkled in.

BINGO!We've seen all kinds of prospects play multiple positions in the minors, why wasn't Sano in RF 25 games or more a year then?Because Terry made a stupid signing and painted himself into a corner. 


#36 DJSim22

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 10:45 AM

 

 

No one ever says it, but at some point, we have to consider trading Sano.

 

Why?

 

He took a step back last year, and his natural position is going to be 1B, where Twins have a monster logjam.

 

Head case?Fielding liability?Strike-out percentage?Clubhouse cancer?

 

Everybody talks about his high ceiling, but what if there is no helium in the Sano balloon? 

 

Kid had a movie made about him at 16.That could be peaking early, or really, peaking prematurely.Will make last out of game at 3B, miss cutoff men, and generally look confused.

Could you expand on the clubhouse cancer comment?I'm not remembering him being a lockerroom problem, but I am getting older and more forgetful.

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#37 Major League Ready

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 06:46 PM

 

i don't remember the context in which I commented on Schwarber so I apologize if I derailed another discussion you were having. The Cubs played the odds with Schwarber in left throughout 2015 and it all caught up with them in the postseason.

 

i don't remember the context in which I commented on Schwarber so I apologize if I derailed another discussion you were having. The Cubs played the odds with Schwarber in left throughout 2015 and it all caught up with them in the postseason.

No problem.The only point was that many summarily dismissed Sano and this experiment because he was 270 lbs.I used Schwaber as an example for a couple reasons.One, Maddon is highly regarded. Two, Schwaber, while not completely untested, was far from proven. Point being , Sano is faster even at 270 than Schwaber so why was the Schwaber experiment OK and the Sano experiment not worthy of the experiment.As I said from the beginning, I thought they should have just put him at 3B and rode it out but I was ok with the experiment in a season that never had a chance from day 1. 

 

The thing that really floors me is that so many people said he could not play there because he weighed 270 lbs. as if there was no correcting the problem.He is 270 because you can get away with being out of shape in baseball.I will be thrilled if he shows up in great shape not just for the obvious reasons but it would also suggest a higher level of commitment.Koske went from being a bad 3B defensively to quite good with determination and commitment.Would love to see that from Sano.

 

BTW ... I agree with Mike.The execution still sucked.That's where the criticism belongs IMO but Sano's size, given his athleticism should not have been an issue.It appeared the experiment was condemned because guys his size are generally far to slow to play the position.While this is true, it's pretty backward logic when he had already demonstrated significantly better speed than others who have played the position. 


#38 mikelink45

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 06:50 AM

 

The new FO has to worry about things like attendance as well as how ownership looks.  If they bench Mauer, a lot of casual fans won't be as interested and benching him suggests ownership wasted 40m+ dollars.  I doubt the FO is going to make those kind of moves early in their run when they have other things to focus on.  And, as bad as Mauer was, he wasn't a complete black hole and it's a pretty open question if Vargas would be better. 

My concern is that the attendance is in the tank and will drop off the cliff unless there is some excitement generated.  The casual drop in fan is not going to pay the bills anymore. I understand Mauer still has name recognition, but maybe they can just have some Mauer Chevrolet sales after the game because Mauer on first is at best a filler.  He is not going to cause us to lose, but he is not going to push us to win. 


#39 Shaitan

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 07:34 AM

 

He took a step back last year, and his natural position is going to be 1B, where Twins have a monster logjam.

 

A logjam of mediocrity. 


#40 Target Field of Dreams

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 08:50 AM

Winning games by putting the best team on the field will fill seats. This team is doomed if new management decides to construct the roster by playing badly declining hometown heroes every day when the fact of the matter is the team is better by playing someone else. They need to make decisions based upon current talent and future potential alone.

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