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Berrios, Duffy Optioned to AAA

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#21 spycake

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 03:53 PM

Maybe the big league coaching staff is part of the problem....

Edited by spycake, 25 August 2016 - 03:54 PM.

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#22 Dozier's Glorious Hair

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 03:56 PM

 

Because dominating AAA helped so well the last time? They've got one or two starts before Rochester's season is over anyway. They need to get experience against MLB hitters, especially Berrios.

 

No, I get that argument. But are we 100% certain that the experience they've been accumulating lately has been helping them? Certainly the Twins have reached the conclusion that facing MLB hitters right now is doing them both more harm than good.

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#23 jimmer

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 03:57 PM

As of the conclusion of last night's game, Gibson with his ERA over 5.00 was 2nd on the team in starter ERA and 3rd in FIP with a FIP over 4.50.

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#24 Platoon

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 03:58 PM

“I love getting guys experience, especially when we are where we are (in the standings), but there comes a point where it doesn’t seem like the right thing,” Twins manager Paul Molitor said. “We’ll see how they do down there the next 10 days.

“It gets to a point where you’re not doing him any favors right now,” Molitor said. “You still have to try to protect your team.”

Two quotes from Molitor. And two thoughts from me. First off, is he making personnel decisions now? If he has usurped Antony's authority, and Pohlad was serious about his no touch status, good luck finding a decent GM. Second, if you want to protect your team, quit puttimg such idiotic lineups together. I used to think the Timberwolves were the premier BF in the Twin Cities, but this makes them look like geniuses in comparison!
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#25 Platoon

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 03:59 PM

No, I get that argument. But are we 100% certain that the experience they've been accumulating lately has been helping them? Certainly the Twins have reached the conclusion that facing MLB hitters right now is doing them both more harm than good.

Your last sentence is actually sort of scary! :)
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#26 bluechipper

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:00 PM

 

No, I get that argument. But are we 100% certain that the experience they've been accumulating lately has been helping them? Certainly the Twins have reached the conclusion that facing MLB hitters right now is doing them both more harm than good.

I think it's good for young players to take their lumps, especially in a terribly lost season.Now is the perfect time for Berrios to work through his struggles. He's not going to learn how to command his pitches by continuing to dominate AAA.

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#27 jimmer

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:00 PM

 

I'd love to see them both stay up and work on things at the big league level, but frankly, I can't argue with either of these demotions. 

 

Can't argue with Albers coming up either. He is what he is and that's fine for the Twins at this point. I'd like to see Wheeler get a shot to start too now. 

I'm still waiting for you to publicly say on this site you don't agree with a move the Twins make :-)

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#28 wavedog

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:01 PM

Perhaps the most disappointing/discouraging season in Twins history continues to get worse.  Curious personnel moves, so many prospects failing to develop, not being able to master fundamentals  - along with a new GM we also need a fresh coaching staff I believe.  

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#29 bluechipper

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:02 PM

If Molitor is trying to "protect the team," I don't think Pat Dean and Andrew Albers are going to do much to help that. This is ridiculous.

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#30 Platoon

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:09 PM

All angst, anger, disappointment, and disgust aside, there is only one way for this team to go! And that's forward. Forward with the Buxtons, Sanos, Polanco's, Rosario's, Berrios, Chargois, etc. forward with all of those who have mastered AAA, even those exceptional in AA. Why? Because it's either these guys, or your toast. All the Andrew Albers, Grossmans, Escobars, Plouffes, and Suzukis of the world aren't going to win anything. Yes, I know you need fill ins and depth. Which you can pick up anywhere, anytime, as we are well aware of. Maybe moreso than any team in sports!
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#31 Dozier's Glorious Hair

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:11 PM

 

I think it's good for young players to take their lumps, especially in a terribly lost season.Now is the perfect time for Berrios to work through his struggles. He's not going to learn how to command his pitches by continuing to dominate AAA.

 

Maybe so. I'm not sure what I'd do with them, to be honest. They seem to have allowed the game to get way deep into their heads. How does one get a young player to turn off an overthinking brain? Crash Davis, where are you?

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#32 Doomtints

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:12 PM

Looks like someone here called for the Duffey thing right on schedule.  Good job, Gagne Fan.

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#33 mikelink45

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:20 PM

Will Bert Blyleven go down to AAA and help straighten things out? We have gotten to a point where even coaching is a joke. 


#34 Doomtints

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:24 PM

 

Will Bert Blyleven go down to AAA and help straighten things out? We have gotten to a point where even coaching is a joke. 

 

Blyleven says he can't teach what he did.  Either a guy gets it, or he doesn't.

 

But by my measure this puts him a step above the Twins coaches, who won't admit that they can't teach.

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#35 Danchat

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:37 PM

 

Pat Dean and Andrew Albers are 2/5 of the rotation. I feel like it's 2013 again.

I was going to post something saying the exact same thing. We're back to starting P. J. Walters and Cole DeVries again - except this time their names are Pat Dean and Andrew Albers.

 

I just can't fathom that we're at a point in time where Albers is starting over Berrios.

 

I like that Wimmers is coming up... but knowing how all our rookies do, he'll probably post a 7.00 ERA.

Edited by Danchat, 25 August 2016 - 04:38 PM.

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#36 Sconnie

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:53 PM

Maybe the big league coaching staff is part of the problem....

to that end, prospects aren't arriving to the bigs "ready". Minor league coaching staff could be just as detrimental.
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#37 Kwak

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:57 PM

It has been almost 5 full years since the "much maligned" Bill Smith was ceremoniously dumped. Poor starting pitching and poor fundamentals have been continuously cited as the cause for this trainwreck of a franchise. Mega millions have been spent, every dumpster has been scraped, everybody who have been described as a pitcher has been evaluated--and this franchise can only count ONE bona fide major league pitcher! The "fielders" are error-prone. Hitters are basically HR or nothing.

 

There is NO reason to retain anybody from the Front Office, minor leagues, scouts and evaluators, et al after this season ends. It would be pointless to find the one or two who actually are useful because another mistake might be made. Clean House!

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#38 jaimedude2

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 05:00 PM

Having Dean and Albers in the starting rotation, injuries or youth or inexperience, this is like having Cole Devries and Sam Deduno or PJ Walters in the starting rotation. That kind of organizational filler, and stop gaps, should not happen again. But here we are in 2016 seeing the same crap just like it is 2013 all over again with no change in organizational philosophy. If Molitor is pulling the strings to get these two sent down, as bad as they are  he is part of the problem not part of the solution.

 

This organization doesn't develop good starting pitching plain and simple that is why they are dead last in runs given up with two outs this year and have high ERA's, that and under 50 wins at 08/25/16.

 

Beyond frustrated with Twins front office and on field management. Twins ownership needs to clean house and quit with the ultimatums about keeping Molitor. They have gone too piecemeal about this rebuild for far too long.

This year in seeing how much this team and the young players have regressed in one season, the only bright light seems to be that Brian Dozier is a competent big leaguer and he is 30 years old wasting away his best and most competitive years. He is the one asset that might actually be worth something in getting starting pitching, but then your line-up sucks again and needs a new leadoff hitter.

 

This decade  is turning into the late Nineteen Nighties all over again with studio non-competitive baseball, and  little to no light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited by jaimedude2, 25 August 2016 - 05:11 PM.

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#39 Deduno Abides

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 05:04 PM

At this point in the season, this is as much of an indictment of Neil Allen as anything. "Well, Neil, we think they'd be better off getting five days of tutelage with Rochester than working with you."
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#40 Monkeypaws

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 05:06 PM

Remember before Berrios was promoted there was some talk by coaches of things he needed to work on in spite of the gaudy numbers? Their claim has been validated. His command is non-existent.

 

At least Berrios has something to build on next season, now that he has some big-league experience.

 

I think the coaching staff is far less clueless than some of you believe.

Edited by Monkeypaws, 25 August 2016 - 05:06 PM.

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