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Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:14 AM
Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:43 AM
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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:31 AM
Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:32 AM
So it proves that if you want to get good players in trades, you need to trade good players, and also not wait until they are only 3 month rentals. The question is, has Ryan come to the same conclusion?
Another nice recap Nick.
Mike has summed it up correctly. If you want good players you need to offer good players. This is what the market brought for Frankie.
I'm sure we will all be watching Liriano for the rest of the season and somehow try and draw conclusions from his performances into evaluating this trade. If he does well, does that reflect badly on Rick Anderson and the Twins coaching staff and how they handled him? If he pitches poorly will that mean that TR played it well and at least got some thing for him? I have a feeling we will land somewhere in between. He will pitch great at times and implode during other outings, just like he did for us. That may be good enough for the Sox. It didn't work for us, we are at a point where we need consistent starts and at this point in his career, Liriano is anything but a consistent pitcher.
Good Luck to Frankie, I hope he finds that groove and fulfills his potential down the road, I just hope it isn't as White Sox.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:46 AM
Most "live" arm yes, best arm? Not so sure. Moving forward I'd say there is a at least a 50% chance that Hendriks, Diamond and Gibson all outpitch Liriano, and most importanly will cost millions of dollars cheaper.
This trade will not be viewed favorably in the future. A team this desparate for starting pitching should not be so cavalier about dumping the best arm in it's system.
I wanted Liriano to stick around as well, and maybe if he preforms "meh" for the White Sox (4.00-4.50 ERA) down the stretch perhaps we can get him back on a cheap 1 year or 2 year deal. But the Twins decided enough was enough at this point with Liriano and they made the move, sometimes you just gotta move on, just like the Delmon trade last year.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:59 AM
For the record, i object to the term "nobody."
The find I find amazing is the short attention span of most fans, even knowledgeable fans. Last May, this is exactly what fans were clamoring for - a run of good starts so the Twins could get something, ANYTHING, for him before he imploded again. Nobody was talking about offering him an extension or calling him the best arm in the system (which he is on his good days). There were even some who said we should just DFA him and be done with it. I'm OK with this trade - I would have liked more, but it wasn't to be.
I do think, given their contracts, that more needs to be expected for Span, Willingham or Morneau - they won't go for this level of return. If that's all that Ryan is offered for one of them, just say no and keep them.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 08:11 AM
Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:16 AM
Edited by Jim Crikket, 30 July 2012 - 09:28 AM.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:30 AM
Edited by Willihammer, 30 July 2012 - 09:32 AM.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:34 AM
Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:48 AM
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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:02 AM
Again--why all the comments over this trade. Liriano was going at the end of the season for nothing. No way, TR would offer him a $12million one-year contract to get the draft pick. Not even CC or Verlander is worth $12million a year. We got two guys who most likely are not worth much--but that is more than we would have gotten at the end of the season.
Frankie has 10 starts (more or less) to demonstrate his value for next year. I doubt he will get an offer of $12million (total for 3 years) he is too up and down.
There is no leak yet of what Jr. turned down from other orgs - we can presume, based on prior comments to the media, that Jr weeded out lower ball, higher ceiling prospects in favor of the "ready to go" route and thus traded for 2 players who were currently on a MLB roster. Certainly no other club offered him that.
We can't argue that other offers were "better" but we can bust him for the faulty approach which targets your typical low-budget patchwork of players that have failed for 21 years running.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:03 AM
we can presume, based on prior comments to the media, that Jr weeded out lower ball, higher ceiling prospects in favor of the "ready to go" route and thus traded for 2 players who were currently on a MLB roster.
Except for the part where Ryan said that he was targeting low ball, higher ceiling prospects during the deadline.