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Article: Should Robbie Grossman Be In The Twins Plans?

robbie grossman byron buxton eddie rosario danny santana max kepler
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#21 Hrbek70

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 08:41 AM

I don't think our 4th or 5th OFers are going to make or break us and he is cheap for at least another year. Look at the crap we have had roaming the OF the past few years and I say keep him until Palka forces his way to MSP. Grossman is a better professional hitter than ABW and is about as valuable as Santana too. We need role players on the team that don't think they are stars and IMO Grossman fits this perfectly. Hopefully we have Kepler, Buxton and Rosario manning the OF next March and Grossman can give them a blow 1-2 times a week and get 12-16 ABs a week.
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#22 SarasotaBill

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 08:45 AM

Comparing Nunez and Grossman is like comparing apples and oranges.

Nunez is a free swinger and Grossman takes "professional" at bats.

 

Nunez MLB career .312 OBP (age 24 -29)

Grossman MLB career .343 (age 23-26) just entering his prime

Their MiLB OBP has a even bigger difference

 

.400 OBP players don't grow on trees. At the very least I want him around until it's proven otherwise.

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#23 Taildragger8791

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 08:50 AM

 

you think that's his true talent level? 

 

Not at all, it's probably much better. Against lefties in the minors this year he was .500/.545/.850. He's clearly HOF against southpaws. Don't mind that it was only 20 AB.

 

I kid. No I don't, but I don't think it's terribly far off other than the power may be inflated. He does have a history of hitting well against lefties, especially looking at his minor league splits over the years. Why not ride it out and see if he can keep it up? He isn't blocking anyone this year. It wouldn't work out logistically, but he'd platoon well with Palka if they find themselves on a roster together. Palka does quite a bit better against righties over his career, especially in the power department.

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#24 Lonestar

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 08:53 AM

 

I think Danny Santana has played out his string and Robbie Grossman returns next year as the fourth or fifth option. In my head, I see the Twins cutting ties(hopefully via trades) with DSan, Vargas or Park(I think Park stays), and Plouffe before Spring Training. I am also confident that Palka will leap frog ABW to the majors and if either is here in the Spring, it will be Palka.

That


#25 Everyday Eddy

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 08:59 AM

Have him work to improve his defense (he's not that old, it can be done) and suddenly he's a pretty good player to have on the roster

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#26 Dave The Dastardly

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:03 AM

 

I'd prefer signing a legitimate veteran OF as a stop gap so Buxton can earn his way into the lineup. Somebody like Carlos Gomez for example. In a scenario like that, Grossman can still stay on as the 4th OF, DSan's off the team, and Escobar takes over as the utility player. 

Carlos Gomez? "The" infamous Carlos Gomez of inconsistency fame? Why waste the money? We can have the inconsistent Buxton on the squad for less dough. Besides, glancing at the roster, the Twinkies are long on outfielders anyway. I'd rather see a young'un get a chance than pick up another oldster off the junk heap.

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#27 Taildragger8791

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:08 AM

Is there someone that can elaborate on what aspect of his defense is so deficient? I guess I haven't seen enough of him out there to notice more than a couple bad plays. He's not the fastest but he doesn't look like he's pulling a sled either. Considerably better than Delmon Young looking like he's pinching a penny between his but cheeks as he waddles. Does he take bad routes or misjudge balls? He seems to catch what he gets to and the arm looks passable. It's confusing how he could be rated so poorly when he looks to have average athleticism and baseball smarts.


#28 TheBoofIsLoose

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:11 AM

He's cheap, relatively young, and has a few positive aspects to his game. As others have said there is no real market for him and he isn't taking a spot from somebody. Until Buxton stops being bounced between levels we could use a solid, on-base producing, fourth outfielder. 

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#29 HitInAPinch

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:17 AM

To me, it depends. 

 

Danny Santana and Robbie Grossman have been serving a purpose:Delaying callups of MiLBers who are not quite ready.Need a little more seasoning.This is where the Twins failed Buxton, IMHO going all in on an unproven commodity at MLB-level was desperation move for CF defense.

 

So, who are the ready/almost outfielders?I know ABW and Palka get mentioned a lot [power].How about Wade?Earlier this year, Wade was ranked higher than ABW (March 4, FanGraphs)If they're not ready right now, why are we talking about ditching either Santana or Grossman?

 

Should Grossman (or DanSan) be in the Twins plans? IDK.Show me the plan!

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#30 ashbury

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:18 AM

Is there someone that can elaborate on what aspect of his defense is so deficient?

The arm is half a step above Ben Revere's. I've seen baserunners abuse him because of it - he gets to the ball and doesn't do anything especially wrong and yet a baserunner decides to go for it and winds up not paying a price. Too many of those and it starts to be a problem even if everything else is more or less sound.

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A mistake made more than once starts to look like a decision.


#31 kab21

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:19 AM

 

I'd prefer signing a legitimate veteran OF as a stop gap so Buxton can earn his way into the lineup. Somebody like Carlos Gomez for example. In a scenario like that, Grossman can still stay on as the 4th OF, DSan's off the team, and Escobar takes over as the utility player. 

You have Rosario and Kepler as stop gaps and Granite a little further off. I think signing another stop gap isn't necessary. I think you take value where you can get it though and if there is a Dexter Fowler type of value out there then go for it. Maybe that is Carlos Gomez. He has looked terrible this year but I would be very happy with 2015 Carlos Gomez and there is potential beyond that.

 

I think Grossman is the perfect 4th OF'er considering how this team is built. Our KosherJew/Scott mentioned the defensive importance of the 4th OF'er but when your corner OF'ers are Kepler and Rosario then that is less important since you can always shift them to CF. In addition to that I think Santana is a lock to be back. Many will hate it but he can play every position but 1B and C. That positional flexibility allows you a lot of different options at the other bench spots. And as it relates to Grossman it allows for the Twins to keep a less defensive gifted OF'er since Santana is another CF option.

 

Next years bench

backup catcher 

Polanco

Grossman

DanSan

 

I think the Twins roll with Grossman while he is cheap but keep him as a plan B in the OF since his numbers are fluky this year (and every GM believes this). He is probably a .240/.330/.370/.700 hitter. That isn't great but it is great for a backup making 500+K.

 

postscript - please stop playing Santana so much. His versatility makes him a great 25th man. Stop playing him 3-4+ times/wk.

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#32 HitInAPinch

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:29 AM

 

 

Is there someone that can elaborate on what aspect of his defense is so deficient? I guess I haven't seen enough of him out there to notice more than a couple bad plays. He's not the fastest but he doesn't look like he's pulling a sled either. Considerably better than Delmon Young looking like he's pinching a penny between his but cheeks as he waddles. Does he take bad routes or misjudge balls? He seems to catch what he gets to and the arm looks passable. It's confusing how he could be rated so poorly when he looks to have average athleticism and baseball smarts.

Combo of things.He is slow afoot, left-handed and doesn't have a strong arm. 

 

As a LF, slow afoot lessens his ability to throw runners out because he has to turn-around to make a throw.He ain't no ballerina.The lack of a strong arm exacerbates the issue. A right-hander in LF would almost always be in a position to make the throw back into the infield right away.In RF, or even CF, Grossman's problem would be less prominent. 

 

I'd call Grossman a classic #4 outfielder.Not good enough to start, good enough for pinch-hit, DH and occasional OF duties. If there's a MLB-ready OF in the minors, Grossman is an easy cut.

Edited by HitInAPinch, 11 August 2016 - 09:30 AM.

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#33 Tom Froemming

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:36 AM

I like Robbie, but to me the hope is that the young guys play him out of the picture. Ideally next season I'd like to see Kepler in RF, Buxton in CF and either Walker or Palka in LF with Rosario as the 4th OF.

 

Walker is yet again leading his league in homers. The Ks are obviously a huge concern, and he's not known for his defense, but he deserves a look with the big club at some point next season.

 

You can basically say all the same things about Palka, but Walker has a lot more of a track record in the upper minors (987 PAs between Double A & Triple A vs. Palka's 468).

 

Both Walker and Palka turn 25 in October. If you're not going to leave the door open for them next season then at least one of them needs to be traded.

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#34 Thrylos

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:37 AM

The 4 OFs for the Twins in 2017 should be (alphabetically) : Buxton, Kepler, Palka, and Rosario.  There are 3 DH/1B on the roster: Vargas, Mauer, Park.

 

Because Grossman is so good against LHP, and 3 of the 4 mentioned are LHBs, he might have a position with the Twins in 2017 over Danny Santana as a fifth OF, but that will require the Twins to get rid of one of their DHs.  And if that is Vargas, it would be a shame, because I'd rather have Vargas than Grossman on the team any day.

 

So the equation is really:

Grossman or Palka  

or

Grossman or Vargas

 

And for me, Grossman loses both of those...  

So the Twins should sell high, hopefully this month.

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#35 Willihammer

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:41 AM

Take a page out of the Earl Weaver playbook- on road games bat Grossman 1st or 2nd to get on base in the top of the first, then sub in Rosario for his defense in the bottom half of the inning.

Edited by Willihammer, 11 August 2016 - 09:42 AM.

Well, there's that.

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#36 John Kelsey

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:10 AM

It seems that people don't realize how terrible he is defensively because he doesn't make any glaring mistakes like Delmon, Arcia, Sano etc. 

 

He doesn't get to balls that an outfielder should and has a noodle arm, not a good combo. 

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#37 kab21

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:42 AM

 

The 4 OFs for the Twins in 2017 should be (alphabetically) : Buxton, Kepler, Palka, and Rosario.  There are 3 DH/1B on the roster: Vargas, Mauer, Park.

 

Because Grossman is so good against LHP, and 3 of the 4 mentioned are LHBs, he might have a position with the Twins in 2017 over Danny Santana as a fifth OF, but that will require the Twins to get rid of one of their DHs.  And if that is Vargas, it would be a shame, because I'd rather have Vargas than Grossman on the team any day.

 

So the equation is really:

Grossman or Palka  

or

Grossman or Vargas

 

And for me, Grossman loses both of those...  

So the Twins should sell high, hopefully this month.

How exactly do you think the Twins can sell high this month? We are talking about a 4th OF'er here.

 

Why cut Grossman just to bring up Palka as a 4th OF'er? 

 

I am also not sure how Vargas ended up on the chopping block vs Grossman. If Sano is at 3B then Vargas is probably at DH although perhaps you are talking about Park but he has MiLB options left.

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#38 KirbyDome89

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:57 AM

If the Twins move Plouffe like they should, and Sano takes over 3B full time then the DH logjam is solved and Vargas doesn't have to go. Park can spend another year in the minors if necessary, or maybe he and Vargas duke it out who knows? Polanco is your IF utility. The infamous Dantana can finally be relieved of his duty (who am I kidding this guy is going to torture me forever,) which opens up another spot for either ABW or Palka. I feel Grossman's ability to get on base and work an AB is underrated. I'm also not sold at all on ABW ever being a productive MLB player, of the two prospects Palka is the more intriguing prospect to me. IMO there is no need to toss Grossman out when other moves can be made which would actually strengthen the roster. 

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#39 Thrylos

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:28 AM

 

Why cut Grossman just to bring up Palka as a 4th OF'er? 

 

Who said that Palka would be a 4th OF?  Rosario (because he can play CF) would likely be the 4th OF and his playing time would be like 110 games resting all other 3.  Other option is that Buxton does not make the team...

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#40 nytwinsfan

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:38 AM

Today's game is exhibit A of why Grossman should not be the Twins' long-term left fielder. Trade him to someone who values his offense and fails to fully account for his terrible range.

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