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JO Berrios

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#1 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

Didnt see an individual thread on the 32nd overall pick. Got his first start of year today for GCL goin 4IP 2h 6K. Was 7 days since his last appearance when he started getting stretched out goin 3IP 3K. Had also been 7 days since his last appearance before that....kind of curious I guess. Overall 7gms 14IP 4h 1er 21k 2bb Time will tell, but I believe he's the organizations best pitching prospect....is he top 10 yet (maybe 6th after big 5)?? Majority of other #1 picks have been moved to A ball for their 19 yr old season, so I expect him in Beloit next yr...not ELIZ but its hard to tell as MN hasnt drafted many high school pitchers this high for comparisons.

#2 Vervehound

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 02:58 PM

Didnt see an individual thread on the 32nd overall pick.
Got his first start of year today for GCL goin 4IP 2h 6K.
Was 7 days since his last appearance when he started getting stretched out goin 3IP 3K.
Had also been 7 days since his last appearance before that....kind of curious I guess.
Overall
7gms 14IP 4h 1er 21k 2bb
Time will tell, but I believe he's the organizations best pitching prospect....is he top 10 yet (maybe 6th after big 5)??
Majority of other #1 picks have been moved to A ball for their 19 yr old season, so I expect him in Beloit next yr...not ELIZ but its hard to tell as MN hasnt drafted many high school pitchers this high for comparisons.


very high on berrios - one of the top arms in the system without much doubt, though the frame is of some concern. it's hard to think of an example of a twins pitcher that has spent their age 19 season in low-a so i think your statement is incorrect - everyone seems to be going through e-town these days (think boyd and mata on this year's team and salcedo a couple years ago). that said, the twins haven't used many high picks on prep arms in recent years so the sample size is small. at any rate, berrios is good enough that he could forge his own path.

#3 nicksaviking

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 03:32 PM

Hudson Boyd was a HS comp pick last year. He's still in E'ton, of course he didn't pitch for the orgainzation last year.

#4 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 03:56 PM

Going with the precendence that's been set, E-town will be the likely destination. However, JOB might have 50-60 professional innings under his belt by the end of the year and may even see a promotion this year. With that being said, I woukd be shocked if he headed to Beloit in April. But late May would be possible.

#5 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 03:57 PM

If Mn wants to start competing, they need to start treating their high draft picks like EVERY other team. Last yrs #1 drafted high school pitcher picks and where they are this yr as 19 yr olds Dylan Bundy 4th by Balt....started in Low A, now in High A Archie Bradley 7th by ARIZ....started in Low A (MWL) after 2 gms last yr Jose Fernandez 14th MIA....started in Low A, now in Florida St Lg (High A) after 2gms last yr Tyler Beede 21st by Tampa....didnt sign Taylor Gurerrieri 24th by Tampa....short season NY Penn Lg Joe Ross 25th by SD....hasnt pitched yet due to injury Robert Stephenson 27th by CIN....7gms in short season, now in Low A (MWL) Kevin Matthews 33rd by TEX....all year in Low A after 12gms in short season last yr Supplemental Round Henry Owens 36th overall by BOS....all year in Low A Michael Fulmer 44th overall by NYM...all year in Low A after 4gms in short season last yr Joe Musgrove 46th overall by TOR....2gms in App Lg after 9gm in GCL/App Lg last yr Michael Kelly 48th by SD....7gms in Low A (MWL) deomoted to short season Kyle Crick 49th by SF.....all yr in Low A after 7gms in short season last yr Blake Snell 52nd by Tampa....8gms in App Lg this yr after 11gms in GCL last yr Hudson Boyd 55th 2 of the picks above Boyd still in short season are Tampa's...which is interesting, do they go slow like MN?? Only 1 other (TOR's Musgrove) have yet to be promoted above short season (hasnt pitched in a month tho) & he was dealt to HOU in the 10 player deal last wk

Edited by greengoblinrulz, 28 July 2012 - 04:09 PM.


#6 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 04:21 PM

If Mn wants to start competing, they need to start treating their high draft picks like EVERY other team.
Last yrs #1 drafted high school pitcher picks and where they are this yr as 19 yr olds
Dylan Bundy 4th by Balt....started in Low A, now in High A
Archie Bradley 7th by ARIZ....started in Low A (MWL) after 2 gms last yr
Jose Fernandez 14th MIA....started in Low A, now in Florida St Lg (High A) after 2gms last yr
Tyler Beede 21st by Tampa....didnt sign
Taylor Gurerrieri 24th by Tampa....short season NY Penn Lg
Joe Ross 25th by SD....hasnt pitched yet due to injury
Robert Stephenson 27th by CIN....7gms in short season, now in Low A (MWL)
Kevin Matthews 33rd by TEX....all year in Low A after 12gms in short season last yr
Supplemental Round
Henry Owens 36th overall by BOS....all year in Low A
Michael Fulmer 44th overall by NYM...all year in Low A after 4gms in short season last yr
Joe Musgrove 46th overall by TOR....2gms in App Lg after 9gm in GCL/App Lg last yr
Michael Kelly 48th by SD....7gms in Low A (MWL) deomoted to short season
Kyle Crick 49th by SF.....all yr in Low A after 7gms in short season last yr
Blake Snell 52nd by Tampa....8gms in App Lg this yr after 11gms in GCL last yr
Hudson Boyd 55th

2 of the picks above Boyd still in short season are Tampa's...which is interesting, do they go slow like MN??
Only 1 other (TOR's Musgrove) have yet to be promoted above short season (hasnt pitched in a month tho) & he was dealt to HOU in the 10 player deal last wk


This chart is a bit deceptive. How many of these high picks are college and how many are higschool pitchers? There's a big different in how you bring these guys along. The college picks will have lower ceilings but are far more advanced. The high school picks typically need more time, which is why the CBA gives them an extra year before they have to be added to the 40 man roster. Moving picks aggressively has a lot more to do with how well the kid is doing, and it should be done in a case by case scenario. Otherwise, you end up like the Mets who constantly push guys and have so many of their prospects just flame out....


Oh, and I'm not sure I'd be ready to crown Berrios top 10 just yet... He's close, but given how far back he is, he's probably more of a 10-15 type pick...

#7 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 04:38 PM

2010 high school first round picks (season they are 20) Jameson Taillon 2nd by Pitt....didnt pitch first yr, all 2nd yr in Low A, all 3rd yr in High A Karsten Whitson 9th by SD....didnt sign, went to Florida Dylan Covey 14th by MIL....didnt sign, went to U of San Diego Mike Foltynewicz 19th by Hou...APP Lg first yr (12st)......Low A last 2 but greatly improved this yr Jesse Biddle 27th by PHI.....GCL/NYP (12st) first yr.....Low A all of 11'....High A all yr this yr....been very solid Zach Lee 28th by LAD.....didnt pitch first yr.....Low A (MWL) all of last yr....High A & recent promotion to AA(where he has struggled) Cam Bedrosian 29th by LAA....short season in 10'.....had TJ surgery last yr....all this year in Low A (MWL) Cito Culver 32nd by NYY.....drafted as pitcher but moved to SS fulltime Supplemental Round Aaron Sanchez 34th by TOR....GCL/NYP first yr (10st)....APP Lg/another short season last yr.....Low A in 12(MWL) Noah Syndergaard 38th by TOR...GCL first yr (5st)....short season yr 2 w/2 Low A starts.....all yr in Low A (MWL) this yr Taijuan Walker 43rd by SEA....4 relief gms in AZL in first yr......all yr in Low A (MWL) last yr.....jumped to AA or all of this yr Luke Jackson 45th by TEX....didnt pitch first yr....Low A all of last yr.....Low A (13st) before High A (7st) promotion Peter Tago 47th by COL....didnt pitch first yr.....Low A all of first yr.....demoted to short season for all of this yr Tyrell Jenkins 50th by StL....2APP Lg gm first yr.....App Lg all of 2nd yr (11st).....Low A (MWL) all of this yr between the 2 drafts, I see Toronto is every bit as conservative as anyone.

Edited by greengoblinrulz, 28 July 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#8 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 04:40 PM

This chart is a bit deceptive. How many of these high picks are college and how many are higschool pitchers? There's a big different in how you bring these guys along. The college picks will have lower ceilings but are far more advanced. The high school picks typically need more time, which is why the CBA gives them an extra year before they have to be added to the 40 man roster. Moving picks aggressively has a lot more to do with how well the kid is doing, and it should be done in a case by case scenario. Otherwise, you end up like the Mets who constantly push guys and have so many of their prospects just flame out....


Oh, and I'm not sure I'd be ready to crown Berrios top 10 just yet... He's close, but given how far back he is, he's probably more of a 10-15 type pick...

They were ALL high school picks....no college picks in there

Salcedo & Mata for example were free agents who signed early so Im not including them ....only US high school #1 draft picks.

Slightly disagree that Berrios cant be that high as he's just drafted.....There arel high school pitchers in the top 100 the next yr after bein drafted...not a teams top 10/15 (Zach Lee was 89th overall by BAmerica before ever throwing a professional pitch & was drafted 28th) & Berrios is actually ahead of pitchers from the past few yrs, with the new signing period, as he gets a full season in to develop. He only gets/stays that high if he continues to dominate this yr obviously

Edited by greengoblinrulz, 28 July 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#9 nicksaviking

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 06:04 PM

Seeing as how the Twins have a total of 7 starts from 21-year-olds since Terry Ryan took over, I think it's safe to assume Barrios will also get the cautious approach. The starts in question were three from Santana and four from Liriano, neither of which was drafted by the Twins and both were playing in Latin American acadamies instead of American high schools. Additionally, had Santana not been a Rule V pick, the Twins would not have had him on the 25-man roster. If you want to throw in Pat Mahomes' eight starts as a 21-year-old under Andy McPhail, that's a total of 15 starts from 21-year-olds since the team moved out of Met Stadium. I'm not getting my hopes up for early promotions for the high school arms.

#10 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 07:26 PM

Please don't compare berrios to Bundy. There is no reason to rush him at this point.

#11 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 07:52 PM

Please don't compare berrios to Bundy. There is no reason to rush him at this point.


dont think there was a Bundy reference, just every other high school first rounder before & after him for the last 2 drafts.

#12 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:51 AM

Terry Ryan says he's pitching his way out of this level.

#13 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:13 AM

Terry Ryan says he's pitching his way out of this level.


nice

#14 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 05:43 PM

First start for ELIZ tonight......so far 3 perfect innings with 4K Night finished with 4IP 1h 1bb 5k....sweet

Edited by greengoblinrulz, 11 August 2012 - 06:16 PM.


#15 Mr. Ed

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:00 PM

http://www.milb.com/...&vkey=news_milb

Story on 11K outing Friday 8/17

#16 minn55441

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:28 PM

This is what caught my eye from the article.

With numbers like those, the 18-year-old right-hander has made his debut season look easy. According to him, however, it's been the opposite. "It hasn't been easy," Berrios said. "I've been working really hard just to do well here so far. Everything I do goes toward my goal of making it to the big leagues someday."

Sounds like the kid knows what he wants and knows he has to work for it. It will be interesting to see how this maturity moves him through the system. He will be fun to watch over the next couple of seasons.

#17 jokin

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:24 PM

This is what caught my eye from the article.

With numbers like those, the 18-year-old right-hander has made his debut season look easy. According to him, however, it's been the opposite. "It hasn't been easy," Berrios said. "I've been working really hard just to do well here so far. Everything I do goes toward my goal of making it to the big leagues someday."

Sounds like the kid knows what he wants and knows he has to work for it. It will be interesting to see how this maturity moves him through the system. He will be fun to watch over the next couple of seasons.


15K/9 so far, but the naysayers keep screaming: "Low Ceiling!" I hope they're proven wrong. As in the above quote, wha't not to like how he's handling himself so far?

#18 Vervehound

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 07:50 AM

This is what caught my eye from the article.

With numbers like those, the 18-year-old right-hander has made his debut season look easy. According to him, however, it's been the opposite. "It hasn't been easy," Berrios said. "I've been working really hard just to do well here so far. Everything I do goes toward my goal of making it to the big leagues someday."

Sounds like the kid knows what he wants and knows he has to work for it. It will be interesting to see how this maturity moves him through the system. He will be fun to watch over the next couple of seasons.


15K/9 so far, but the naysayers keep screaming: "Low Ceiling!" I hope they're proven wrong. As in the above quote, wha't not to like how he's handling himself so far?


i don't think anyone is saying he has a low ceiling, just that there's not a lot of projection on the frame. two different things. berrios has no.2 starter potetntial.

#19 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 07:57 AM

[quote name='Vervehound'][quote name='jokin'][quote name='minn55441']This is what caught my eye from the article.

With numbers like those, the 18-year-old right-hander has made his debut season look easy. According to him, however, it's been the opposite. "It hasn't been easy," Berrios said. "I've been working really hard just to do well here so far. Everything I do goes toward my goal of making it to the big leagues someday."

Sounds like the kid knows what he wants and knows he has to work for it. It will be interesting to see how this maturity moves him through the system. He will be fun to watch over the next couple of seasons.[/QUOTE]

15K/9 so far, but the naysayers keep screaming: "Low Ceiling!" I hope they're proven wrong. As in the above quote, wha't not to like how he's handling himself so far?[/QUOTE]

i don't think anyone is saying he has a low ceiling, just that there's not a lot of projection on the frame. two different things. berrios has no.2 starter potetntial.[/QUOTE]

Basically this, if he did happen to have a lot more projection on the fram we would have been talking about an early 1st round pick instead of a supp round pick.

Hopefully he can become a special player for us, but there is a long ways to go obviously.

#20 Roaddog

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:36 AM

I don't think he is a low ceiling guy. He has plus pitches and seems to be a hard worker. I'm not to concerned about the slight frame yet.

#21 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:34 AM

There are some 19 yr old draft picks that went from Low A to AA this yr......just saying that could be a goal for Jose next yr......but this is the Twins organization.

#22 kab21

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:44 PM

There are some 19 yr old draft picks that went from Low A to AA this yr......just saying that could be a goal for Jose next yr......but this is the Twins organization.


1st - this is a silly goal.

2nd - does your list include any pitchers beside Dylan Bundy?

#23 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:58 PM

There are some 19 yr old draft picks that went from Low A to AA this yr......just saying that could be a goal for Jose next yr......but this is the Twins organization.


1st - this is a silly goal.

2nd - does your list include any pitchers beside Dylan Bundy?

looked but .......no:cry:


Needling some with Berrios, would be very happy if he starts the season in Low A & pitches the whole year there.
If he dominates tho....want to see a promotion.

Hard to compare last yrs to this yrs, as this yrs got in a full half-season of ball

#24 East Coast Twin

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:06 AM

John Sickels also wrote about him yesterday at minorleaguebaseball.com.

http://www.minorleag...minnesota-twins

#25 DPJ

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:26 AM

JO should be tearing apart short season ball. He doesn't offer the type of projection you'd like outta a high school pitcher, but his stuff is damn near maxed out and more then enough to handle the GCL and Appy League now.

#26 Celebrity Weddings!

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:22 AM

BPro had an article series called "Raising Aces" about the mechanics of the pitchers drafted in the first round this year. Berrios showed up in the latest installment. It's behind the paywall, and has video that I couldn't swipe anyhow. But the writer said he had "better pitching mechanics than any player selected before him" and noted that "his release point extension is superior to pitchers half-a-foot taller than him." It was pretty rave-y.

#27 Cody Christie

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:23 AM

Love this kid. It is going to be fun to watch his rise over the next few seasons.

#28 Mauerzy4Prez

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:31 AM

John Sickels also wrote about him yesterday at minorleaguebaseball.com.

http://www.minorleag...minnesota-twins


"[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Overall, in 25.2 innings split between Elizabethton and the Gulf Coast League, Berrios has allowed two runs (0.70 ERA), just 10 hits, only four walks, while fanning 43. That's right, [/FONT][/COLOR]43/4 K/BB in 25.2 innings with 10 hits allowed." John Sickels.


Very impressive numbers and I am really excited to hear that he is being brought up as a starter. This guy has excellent mechanics, his throwing motion is consistent across his velocity and off speed stuff, and I am really looking forward to seeing him in a Twins uniform.

#29 ericchri

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:55 AM

I always think back to articles I've read in the past about some topics (you'll likely notice that trend in my posts), and this one comes to mind when talking about someone like Berrios. It looks into some of the less obvious factors in what makes a pitcher's stuff look better than it might be at first glance. Things like "projecting out his frame" are nice, but there's a lot more to pitching, as everybody knows. Who was a better pitcher, Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez? Pointless debate, but you can't get much different bodies on two stud pitchers than those two.

http://sportsillustr...kman/index.html

Essentially, with fastballs, the extension forward before release lends the illusion of "hop", or maybe more simply just seeming faster than it is by having to travel less distance in the air after release. With curveballs (and sliders to some extent), spin speed has a huge impact. There's more information in there (and probably more in-depth studies I'm unaware of), but in essence what it comes down to is some pitchers just do little things differently (i.e. better) than others, and maybe with Berrios we'll have one of those, regardless of what size he may be.

#30 TD Mac

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 03:04 PM

Projecting young pitching can be a tricky business. For example, Is Tyler Jones at Beloit a higher rated prospect than Zachary Wheeler? He has the projectable power arm to potentially be a top of the rotation starter, whereas Wheeler clearly has performed better at their current level. Berrios is dominating rookie ball, though is unlikely to dramatically improve his physical skills. That being said, his current stuff is pretty major league ready. So despite the fact that his ceiling may not be much higher, he still projects to be a top of the rotation talent. In fact, I would argue that his advanced control and mechanics puts him much closer to reaching that "ceiling". Have only seen him on film, but wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Baker-esque type accession for Berrios. Certainly he has the best chance of any pitcher we've seen in years to make the bigs by age 21.