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Article: Gleeman & The Geek, Ep 265: Replacing Terry Ryan

aaron gleeman terry ryan rob antony
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#1 John Bonnes

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:11 PM

Aaron and John have an emergency podcast at New Bohemia to discuss (and debate) the the Twins firing Terry Ryan. You can listen by downloading us from iTunes, Stitcher or find it at GleemanAndTheGeek.com. Or just click the Play button below.

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#2 Brian

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 09:42 PM

Yikes! I chalked up most prior disagreements to you trying to get a rise out of Gleeman with a splash of too many drinks. I didn't think you actually believed what you were arguing. I don't think you appreciate how frustrating it is to listen to you when you're wrong John. You take passive aggressive MN to a whole new level.

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#3 alarp33

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 06:55 AM

I hope you were just trying to play contrarian because that was hard to listen to.  Did you really call the 10 year run in the 2000's one of the most successful ever?  Didn't the Red Sox and Cardinals each win multiple World Series in that same 10 year period?  

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"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#4 dcfreema

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 07:12 AM

John, I took your premise that GMs shouldn't be held accountable for the first 2-3 years of their tenure and did the math that way. Cutting his first three seasons (95, 96, & 97) and all of his second run (being generous, 12-current), you end up with a .508 regular season winning percentage and a .285 winning percentage in the playoffs.

 

Even cutting off the worst years, he still was the head of, on average, a mediocre regular season team. Then we get to the playoffs. I will grant you the playoffs are a crap shoot, but can we not agree that a .285 winning percentage is bad even for a crap shoot? At this point, when these numbers are what you are arguing for, I have to ask, "Why?"


#5 nytwinsfan

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 07:53 AM

While I too also disagree with John about Terry Ryan's relative success or lack thereof, I'm really more interested in talking about the future. Who the Twins pick as the next GM is the most critical decision of the last 15 and probably the next 15 years. Please please pick someone from the modern era. Please.


#6 rghrbek

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 09:26 AM

Gleeman did not even bring up Ryan's disregard for advanced analytics, which was arrogant and damaging to this franchise.  Ryan actually was very smug with people who asked him about this, early on in the movement.

 

Very frustrating to hear John, whom I have a great deal of respect for his baseball acumen, take such a odd stance.

 

It is his opinion, though, and he is allowed to have it.

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#7 Steve Penz

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 09:51 AM

I think John and Aaron are in need of counseling after the battle I just listened to.  


#8 YLT

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 09:53 AM

The real question for John is why is he so interested in seeing Terry Ryan finish out the season? What value does that have for the Twins short term or long term? Especially if the Pohlad's don't have confidence in him.

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#9 Brian

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 10:42 AM

Eighteen seasons is a large enough sample size to expect Ryan to have a replacement level .500 winning percentage. (And no, I'm not giving him a pass on the first few seasons either because he had 15 other seasons to make up for it. If you want to take those out then by that logic you have to add on the Bill Smith years.) The fact that he wasn't really all that close at .474 is just disheartening. A GM career WAR of -150 and he deserves one more season? 

Edited by Brian, 19 July 2016 - 10:43 AM.


#10 Willihammer

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:19 AM

Giving Ryan another season to turn the ship around would be extending an already unprecedented level of patience for a GM. No other owner in baseball history has suffered 4 straight 90+ loss seasons from a GM before. TR would have been gone after 2014 in any other market.
  • Vanimal46 likes this

Well, there's that.

-Dark Star, RIP


#11 Willihammer

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:22 AM

*Except the four 90+ loss teams in the 90s, again under Ryan.

Edited by Willihammer, 19 July 2016 - 11:24 AM.

  • alskntwnsfn likes this

Well, there's that.

-Dark Star, RIP


#12 Ncgo4

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:41 AM

John, I'm embarrassed for your performance last night. A string of 90 loss seasons followed up by this year's likely 100 loss season isn't bad enough to fire a GM? His total disdain for statistical analysis doesn't add enough to the record to fire him? How about Nolasco and Hughes contracts? Not enough, yet? You gotta be kidding!

OK, we "borrowed" Jepson from Tampa Bay for about half a season and gave up Chi-We Hu (forgive spelling) for the privilege. Sano to right field? Berrios still in Rochester? The record of losses, bad decisions, and mishandling of players is almost beyond imagination.

The man outlived his value years ago. That you still think he deserved more time is just goofy.
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#13 Darius

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 02:30 PM

Wow, Bonnes. Wow.

#14 Vanimal46

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 02:36 PM

Well, we sparked a conversation from the podcast! There are times when I agree with John and think Gleeman is off-base, and vice versa. With this episode, I lean heavily towards Gleeman's opinion over John's. 

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#15 PopRiveter

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 02:40 PM

I'm flabbergasted by what I'm listening to and by the comments above.

 

First, John has every right to have his own opinion. He stated his opinion respectfully as one take on the matter and Gleeman responded as if he simply cannot accept the fact that John sees a matter differently. He didn't then proceed enter a thoughtful debate. He acted offended and disgusted that John has a different opinion. 

 

Aaron, it is okay if you and John don't agree. Just afford him some dignity and respect. You can explain why you see the matter differently without getting  frustrated that he doesn't agree.

 

As a grown-up listener, I felt a little embarrassed by Aaron's reaction, so I decided to check the comments and most of you agree with Gleeman? Do most people feel there can't be any variance in viewpoint?

 

Wow.

 

I may need to rethink my involvement in this community.

 

John, kudos to you for keeping a cool head and refusing to rise to the bait.

 

Here's to a better one next time.

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#16 Wookiee of the Year

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 10:00 PM

John was definitely right at the end: Aaron was the ornery one. John, of course, was the crazy one.

 

Dare I say I actually enjoyed this one, though the frustrating part for me was the way both John and Aaron looked only at TR's tenure as a whole. I think it's perfectly fair to say that Ryan had a solid run in his first go-round, but that the new school game had passed him by by his second stint.

 

I look at TR's moves from 2011-2016, and I don't see many decisions that can be labeled successes--and those that could have been were undercut by decisions to hold onto guys rather than sell high, decisions to extend guys, or both. This doesn't take anything away from TR's first tenure as GM, but I'm very comfortable saying that 16 years into the 21st century, he's not the guy I want running my baseball team.

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#17 YLT

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 11:48 AM

When a significant portion of the podcast over the last few seasons has been dedicated to both John and Aaron agreeing on the level of mismanagement in the Twins organization - I think Aaron had every right to be taken aback by John's stance. 

 

John's opinions are what they are - that's fine, but I think he deserves every bit of grief for statements like, "one of the best organizations in that decade run." Completely ludicrous.


#18 Champuckett

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 05:26 PM

Nice to see some post-podcast conversation be discussed here after the explosive (by Minnesota Nice standards) conversation we heard.  I try to listen to just about every episode as they have a talent for getting into the gritty details on an emotional and frustrating level of how I feel as a fan regarding this franchise.

 

John clearly took the unpopular opinion as the rest of Twins fandom has been lighting torches and getting the pitchforks out in response to TR's job the last 5 seasons.  I will give him credit for sticking to his guns on this.

 

However, the writing was on the wall and has been for the last several years.  There was no indication that moves TR was making were going to make this a better team.  He had a lot of chances to get this thing right, way too many chances, and got what he deserved for failing to do his job and failing to adapt to a rapidly changing and increasingly analytics heavy baseball world.


#19 Oxtung

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 08:35 PM

I really enjoyed this episode. The passion on both sides was great. I will say that while I disagree with Johns take he was the more mature in how he handled the discussion. I think Aaron misunderstood some of Johns point though.

John if you care to respond to YLTs question above I'd be interested in your response.
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#20 drivlikejehu

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 08:41 PM

Really embarrassing performance by Bonnes. There really are no words. 

If you ain't got no haters, you ain't poppin'.




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