Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Cardinals send down Kolten Wong

twins dozier cardinals
  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 mazeville

mazeville

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 672 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 07:51 AM

The St. Louis Cardinals yesterday sent down second baseman Kolten Wong, even though they signed Wong to a $25 million contract three months ago. 

 

Wong has been terrible for the Cards, with a .591 OPS so far this year. It made sense for them to send him down, given that the Cardinals are contending and have plenty of other middle infield options.

 

My question: Should the Twins do the same with Brian Dozier?

 

Dozier is often considered on par with Wong. He, too, has a long-term deal. He's been a bit better than Wong this year, with a .649 OPS on the season. 

 

Yet Dozier was not very good in the second half of last year. His pull-happy approach has made it more difficult for him to get hits given modern shifting strategies. And pitchers just aren't giving him the same pitches they did to make him an all star last year. Perhaps the Twins should send Dozier down and instruct him to start hitting the ball the other way.

 

Then again, the Twins aren't exactly contending like the Cardinals, so the Twins could afford to let Dozier fix himself up here. In addition, Dozier is a potential trade candidate if he can fix himself, and sending him down would eliminate whatever trade value he had. And Dozier perhaps earned the right to fix himself in the majors. But he's had a year to do that, and still hasn't done so.

 

Regardless, the Twins have to figure out which Brian Dozier they have, because they have Jorge Polanco waiting in the wings to take over the second base job. 

 

 

 

 

  • glunn likes this

#2 sorney

sorney

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 233 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 07:56 AM

 

The St. Louis Cardinals yesterday sent down second baseman Kolten Wong, even though they signed Wong to a $25 million contract three months ago. 

 

Wong has been terrible for the Cards, with a .591 OPS so far this year. It made sense for them to send him down, given that the Cardinals are contending and have plenty of other middle infield options.

 

My question: Should the Twins do the same with Brian Dozier?

 

Dozier is often considered on par with Wong. He, too, has a long-term deal. He's been a bit better than Wong this year, with a .649 OPS on the season. 

 

Yet Dozier was not very good in the second half of last year. His pull-happy approach has made it more difficult for him to get hits given modern shifting strategies. And pitchers just aren't giving him the same pitches they did to make him an all star last year. Perhaps the Twins should send Dozier down and instruct him to start hitting the ball the other way.

 

Then again, the Twins aren't exactly contending like the Cardinals, so the Twins could afford to let Dozier fix himself up here. In addition, Dozier is a potential trade candidate if he can fix himself, and sending him down would eliminate whatever trade value he had. And Dozier perhaps earned the right to fix himself in the majors. But he's had a year to do that, and still hasn't done so.

 

Regardless, the Twins have to figure out which Brian Dozier they have, because they have Jorge Polanco waiting in the wings to take over the second base job. 

Interesting concept....but I think there is no chance it will happen.  If the Twins org was going to model itself after one, the Cardinals should fly to the top of the list.

  • glunn, notoriousgod71, d-mac and 1 other like this

#3 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:01 AM

Kolten Wong is 25, Brian Dozier is 29... unfortunately I think the latter just is what he is at this point.  If he was capable of fixing his issues (hitting the ball to right), he would do it.  I'm not really sure what is to be gained by sending him to AAA.  

  • HitInAPinch likes this

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#4 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 14,092 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:06 AM

I'd be more interested in seeing if Wong is a buy-low candidate.

  • ashburyjohn, glunn, twinsnorth49 and 4 others like this

#5 mazeville

mazeville

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 672 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:08 AM

 

Kolten Wong is 25, Brian Dozier is 29... unfortunately I think the latter just is what he is at this point.  If he was capable of fixing his issues (hitting the ball to right), he would do it.  I'm not really sure what is to be gained by sending him to AAA.  

 

I don't know if I buy the idea that Dozier can't fix himself just because he's 29. That means none of us who are older than 29 have no hope of improving at our jobs.

 

Many players have made late-career changes to extend their careers or suddenly become all stars. 

 

In Dozier's case, it's a matter of adjusting his approach at the plate to keep both pitchers and defenders honest. I think some time in AAA could help him make that adjustment.

  • glunn likes this

#6 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 11,838 posts
  • LocationThe charred ruins of BYTO

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:10 AM

Dozier has shown he can go opposite field in the past.I have no problems sending him down to get an extended look at Polanco.I guess however, the question is whether or not Brian is being stubborn and refusing to correct, if he's unable, or something else altogether.If it's the first two, a trip to Rochester makes some sense.

  • glunn likes this

#7 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:11 AM

 

I don't know if I buy the idea that Dozier can't fix himself just because he's 29. That means none of us who are older than 29 have no hope of improving at our jobs.

 

 

That's not an accurate analogy at all, unless your job is professional baseball and you're incapable of doing anything but selling out to pull the ball down the line.  

  • HitInAPinch, d-mac and Pardon My Dinger like this

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#8 mazeville

mazeville

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 672 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:20 AM

 

That's not an accurate analogy at all, unless your job is professional baseball and you're incapable of doing anything but selling out to pull the ball down the line.  

 

That's a perfectly accurate analogy. He has a job. It's professional baseball. And like every other job you have to adapt to changes in technology or work demands or whatever.

 

Baseball players need to make adjustments at the plate if they're to have good, long-time careers. Brian Dozier needs to do that right now. He's perfectly capable of it, whether he's 29 or 25. 

 

 


#9 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Twins World Champions in 2018

  • Members
  • 9,239 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:21 AM

 

The St. Louis Cardinals yesterday sent down second baseman Kolten Wong, even though they signed Wong to a $25 million contract three months ago. 

 

[...]

 

My question: Should the Twins do the same with Brian Dozier?

 

The Twins should trade Brian Dozier to the Cardinals :)

 

They play Gyorko right now at 2B who is more of a utility type.  They are in 3rd place right now.  Interesting to see how panicked they are

-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#10 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:22 AM

 

That's a perfectly accurate analogy. He has a job. It's professional baseball. And like every other job you have to adapt to changes in technology or work demands or whatever.

 

Baseball players need to make adjustments at the plate if they're to have good, long-time careers. Brian Dozier needs to do that right now. He's perfectly capable of it, whether he's 29 or 25. 

 

You realize his job relies mainly on physical ability / talent, and (most of) ours doesn't?  Physical ability and talent decrease when you reach high 20's, 30's. 

  • blindeke and d-mac like this

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#11 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:23 AM

 

The Twins should trade Brian Dozier to the Cardinals :)

 

They play Gyorko right now at 2B who is more of a utility type.  They are in 3rd place right now.  Interesting to see how panicked they are

 

Carpenter is going to 2B it sounds like, Peralta was activated to play 3B

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#12 HitInAPinch

HitInAPinch

    Look deeply into mine eyes....

  • Members
  • 5,201 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:24 AM

 

That's not an accurate analogy at all, unless your job is professional baseball and you're incapable of doing anything but selling out to pull the ball down the line.  

I would add that, in terms of being a MLB player, if you don't / can't do something at age 29, I have to wonder how you got there in the first place.

It's not my fault !


#13 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:26 AM

 

I would add that, in terms of being a MLB player, if you don't / can't do something at age 29, I have to wonder how you got there in the first place.

 

I go back to the Fangraphs article that's been posted here from pre-2015.  Some guys "sell-out" by trying to yank every pitch to extend their careers... Dozier just had to do that even earlier, to have a career. I think he is stubborn, but at the same time I'm not sure he has the physical skills to be a complete hitter

  • Platoon and d-mac like this

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#14 HitInAPinch

HitInAPinch

    Look deeply into mine eyes....

  • Members
  • 5,201 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:27 AM

 

 

That's a perfectly accurate analogy. He has a job. It's professional baseball. And like every other job you have to adapt to changes in technology or work demands or whatever.

 

Baseball players need to make adjustments at the plate if they're to have good, long-time careers. Brian Dozier needs to do that right now. He's perfectly capable of it, whether he's 29 or 25. 

No, that is not even close to an "accurate analogy".Dozier's job is physical in nature:athletic, eye/hand coordination, etc.Comparing that to an office worker isn't really accurate.

  • alarp33 and d-mac like this

It's not my fault !


#15 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12,746 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:28 AM

 

I'm not really sure what is to be gained by sending him to AAA.  

Clear playing time for Polanco?

 

To achieve that, you either have to trade someone, demote someone, and/or bench someone.  If a trade opportunity isn't there, the easiest solution is optioning Dozier.  (Every other infielder is out of options, Escobar is already on the bench, and Plouffe and Nunez need/deserve a starting opportunity more than Dozier right now.)

 

Then Dozier and Polanco can both keep playing everyday, without the other guy looking directly over their shoulders either.

  • glunn likes this

#16 mazeville

mazeville

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 672 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:28 AM

 

The Twins should trade Brian Dozier to the Cardinals :)

 

They play Gyorko right now at 2B who is more of a utility type.  They are in 3rd place right now.  Interesting to see how panicked they are

 

At this particular point I'd probably trade Brian Dozier for a bag of baseballs. Because I think Jorge Polanco will play better RIGHT NOW. For a lot less money.

  • d-mac likes this

#17 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:32 AM

 

Clear playing time for Polanco?

 

To achieve that, you either have to trade someone, demote someone, and/or bench someone.  If a trade opportunity isn't there, the easiest solution is optioning Dozier.  (Every other infielder is out of options, Escobar is already on the bench, and Plouffe and Nunez need/deserve a starting opportunity more than Dozier right now.)

 

Then Dozier and Polanco can both keep playing everyday, without the other guy looking directly over their shoulders either.

 

Put me in the camp that Polanco should be playing in MN regardless, so if sending Dozier down is the easiest way to make sure the manager does that, then sure. I guess I mean it more as "sending him down isn't going to "fix" him".  

  • d-mac likes this

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#18 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 12,746 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:43 AM

 

Put me in the camp that Polanco should be playing in MN regardless, so if sending Dozier down is the easiest way to make sure the manager does that, then sure. I guess I mean it more as "sending him down isn't going to "fix" him".  

Mostly agreed, but I think Dozier could benefit from a lower-pressure opportunity to experiment with adjusting his approach, it has to be hard to do that at the MLB level.

 

But yeah, primarily it's the only practical way to get Polanco back in MLB right now, barring a sudden trade.

Edited by spycake, 07 June 2016 - 08:43 AM.

  • alarp33 and LA VIkes Fan like this

#19 mazeville

mazeville

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 672 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:48 AM

 

No, that is not even close to an "accurate analogy".Dozier's job is physical in nature:athletic, eye/hand coordination, etc.Comparing that to an office worker is pretty silly.

 

Only comparing Dozier to an "office worker," or any worker, for that matter, on the basis of evolution.

 

I'm a professional. And I've had to evolve over the years to adapt to the growing demands of my job. And while that does not involve "hand-eye coordination," it does involve "learning new things." Asking Brian Dozier to learn a new thing is not out of the question. 

 

Can he do it? I don't know. But I refuse to believe he can't simply because he's 29. 

 


#20 lukeduke1980

lukeduke1980

    Ft Myers

  • Members
  • 291 posts

Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:10 AM

 

I'd be more interested in seeing if Wong is a buy-low candidate.

We have enough 'projects' thank you




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: twins, dozier, cardinals