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What are the Marlins doing?

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#1 John Bonnes

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:28 PM

I get in a losing year trading away Sanchez because he's going to be a free agent. And I can sort of figure out dangling Hanley Ramirez if they truly believe he is a player without a position (even if he isn't.) But why shop Josh Johnson, who is under contract for next year, around? If they're going to trade a pitcher, why not one making more money? If they're going to blow things up, why start there of all places? What are they trying to accomplish?

#2 Winston Smith

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:38 PM

Health concerns, makes a lot of money on a losing team and will be a free agent after next year. I think the saying was better to trade a player a year early rather than a year late, see several ex-twins for examples. Sellers market he should bring back a lot! But it might make more sense to fire Ozzie!

#3 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:38 PM

If I was a Marlins fan, I'd be pretty bent if they traded Johnson. They just got a new stadium. Though if Josh is demanding a trade because he wants to get away from that animatronic... thing in the outfield, I completely understand.

#4 Seth Stohs

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:42 PM

Doesn't it depend on what they get back for them? I mean, Johnson is good, but he's hurt often, certainly not a guarantee... what if you can get a great package for him? Hanley - I like him, but he's a headcase, apparently, and might cause other issues. His performance isn't all that great either. I think he can be great again, but wonder if that can happen in Miami. So again, whatcould they get for him in return? Might be worthwhile to at least investigate that. I also agree that Ozzie might be a big part of the issue.

#5 Thrylos

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:59 PM

The Marlins won 2 World Series by having fire sales and rebuilding with young talent. I guess that's what they are doing. If JJ brings back a top of the rotation starter prospect and a number 3, plus what they got in the Detroit trade, they would be set with SP for 5-6 years or so :) That's what they are doing.
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#6 Riverbrian

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:06 PM

I can only guess... It does seem to be a bit soon to be throwing in the towel after such a large FA splash this past off season. The only thing that makes sense is that after all the money spent on FA this year and falling short. The Bank is drained and now FA signings for the 2013 squad is not an option. They fell short and still need to improve and don't have much in the upper levels of the farm. Retooling will have to take a different route. Just a guess.

#7 mike wants wins

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:07 PM

Agree with thrylos, they are trying to get better, not remain not bad.
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#8 Winston Smith

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:12 PM

Marlins are moving their CF into 2nd base. Could they use Span as part of a deal for Johnson or with only next year left on Johnsons contract is that a short sighted move?

#9 Thrylos

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:57 PM

Marlins are moving their CF into 2nd base. Could they use Span as part of a deal for Johnson or with only next year left on Johnsons contract is that a short sighted move?


Span's from around there (closer to Tampa, though) so that might work for him, but I am not sure what it will take to pry Johnson (who was born in MPLS, btw) from the Marlins and whether the Twins have what it takes to work out a 4-year extension to keep him until he is 33 (2016) so he can contribute when they will be competitive. I think that it will take some young blood in addition to Span (like Hicks and Hendriks and and )

On the other hand, JJ lost a couple ticks on his FB this season and there have been some concerns. Plus he is an NL pitcher (and I do not like his inter-league splits that much... wish there was a place to get career away inter-league splits for NL pitchers....)

I don't think it's happening. Just not in the Twins' DNA (or at least the ones who are running them now) to do things like this.
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#10 jorgenswest

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 05:11 PM

Johnson in the market adds to the supply and makes it more difficult to get return for Liriano. Hopefully they are asking for too much and teams will look to Liriano. It would be great to have Johnson in Minnesota, but I think the price would be very high and teams in the hunt will have more motivation to overpay.

#11 biggentleben

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 06:37 PM

Watching the Marlins feed tonight against the Braves, and Larry Beinfest stated pretty flatly that Josh Johnson is not being shopped, all movements on Johnson have been "incoming calls"
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#12 drjim

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:27 PM

I also read the Marlins were trading either Sanchez or Johnson but not both. Take that for what it is worth.
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#13 Jason

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:41 AM

Dodgers acquire Hanley Ramirez.

#14 kab21

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:44 AM

but if you spend a lot of money in FA you'll get better right? Isn't this what all of the complaints about the Twins are? WOW! Hanley traded. I'm surprised more teams weren't in on him and disappointed that the Twins weren't in a position where it made sense to go after him.

#15 Seth Stohs

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 03:36 AM

but if you spend a lot of money in FA you'll get better right? Isn't this what all of the complaints about the Twins are?

WOW! Hanley traded. I'm surprised more teams weren't in on him and disappointed that the Twins weren't in a position where it made sense to go after him.


Ha!! That is 100% a myth... spending big money in free agency is rarely the answer.

I'm in a little awe right now that all the Marlins could get for Hanley (and LHP Randy Choate) was Nathan Eovaldi and Scott McGough. Eovaldi was the Dodger's #2 prospect coming into the season, but McGough wasn't in anyone's top 20 Dodgers prospect lists.

I get that Hanley has had a down year statistically, and that he can be a big headache and that he's owed a lot of money next year yet... but I guess I thought he'd have more trade value...

Kind of makes me wonder if this haul affects what the Twins can get for Span or even Willingham. Their contracts are much more friendly. I think the Twins could do better than this for them... but who knows!?

#16 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:39 AM

Ha!! That is 100% a myth... spending big money in free agency is rarely the answer.

I'm in a little awe right now that all the Marlins could get for Hanley (and LHP Randy Choate) was Nathan Eovaldi and Scott McGough. Eovaldi was the Dodger's #2 prospect coming into the season, but McGough wasn't in anyone's top 20 Dodgers prospect lists.

I get that Hanley has had a down year statistically, and that he can be a big headache and that he's owed a lot of money next year yet... but I guess I thought he'd have more trade value...

Kind of makes me wonder if this haul affects what the Twins can get for Span or even Willingham. Their contracts are much more friendly. I think the Twins could do better than this for them... but who knows!?


Hanley has actually had two pretty medicore seasons in a row, that definately raises some serious red flags for me, perhaps there is an undisclosed injury that is bugging him or perhaps he isn't 28?

Either way the Marlins sold him at his low point as he no longer is a capable shortstop (always put up pretty bad numbers) in fact he rates below average at 3rd base this year as well. I don't see how this really effects Spans and Willinghams trade value as Hanley is owed over 30 million in 2013/2014. The Dodgers are taking a pretty big risk bringing that contract on, and unless he can somehow get back at minimum his 2010 days he will not be worth the money. (Even his 2010 numbers were a sharp drop off of nearly .100 OPS of his prior 3 seasons)

It's apparent the Marlins didn't think he would get back to being a true asset so they dumped him while they had a chance, Eovaldi isn't the greatest prospect in the world but he should slot into that rotation quite nicely. Also an interesting note: Morneau has a higher OPS+ then Ramierez this year FWIW.

#17 DPJ

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:43 AM

I would have done evil and immoral things to get Hanley a few years ago. Now he's traded for little to nothing...it's a funny world we live in.

#18 Mr. Ed

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:58 AM

If I was a Marlins fan, I'd be pretty bent if they traded Johnson. They just got a new stadium.



Outside the opening of the season/stadium, are there Marlins fans??

#19 PeanutsFromHeaven

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:11 AM

Outside the opening of the season/stadium, are there Marlins fans??


The Marlins fanbase was last seen being sucked into the whirling vortex of that club out in right field. Slashing payroll may help them rebuild with young prospects, but even better: it will allow them to lower martini costs and free up payroll to bring in a Dubstep DJ!

NOW THAT'S THE FOUNDATION FOR A WINNER!
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#20 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:24 AM

Sounds like the Rangers are offering Olt for Josh Johnson. I'd have to think the Marlins would have to jump at that trade at this point.

#21 Oxtung

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:44 AM

Just heard on ESPN that if the Marlins move Josh Johnson they will have reduced their payroll by ~40%. That would be like the Twins approaching a $60M salary again.

#22 powrwrap

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:00 AM

Looks like Loria is in another salary dump.
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#23 Thrylos

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:24 AM


I'm in a little awe right now that all the Marlins could get for Hanley (and LHP Randy Choate) was Nathan Eovaldi and Scott McGough. Eovaldi was the Dodger's #2 prospect coming into the season, but McGough wasn't in anyone's top 20 Dodgers prospect lists.

I get that Hanley has had a down year statistically, and that he can be a big headache and that he's owed a lot of money next year yet... but I guess I thought he'd have more trade value...

Kind of makes me wonder if this haul affects what the Twins can get for Span or even Willingham. Their contracts are much more friendly. I think the Twins could do better than this for them... but who knows!?


I think that the Twins can do better. Eovaldi was BA's #92 prospect overall and McGough has closer stuff but is a reliever, that's why was not ranked... I was trying to find comparables for the Ramirez plus Choate from the Twins and the closest I could go to was something like Morneau plus Burton. And that is not even close (Morneau plus Burton have more value because of team control and age on Burton and overall owed to Morneau plus better performance recently, plus Morneau can play on the field.) The Dodgers took a huge slice of that payroll as well. If anything, this may give an indication towards Morneau's value.
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#24 Craig in MN

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:34 AM

The Marlins increased they payroll by about $25 million this year, and with raises that would have gone up next year, even after loosing a few big salary free agents this offseason and signing no one. If that is the neighborhood of what they can afford, of course they are paying attention to the payroll. Ramirez isn't worth his contract, so freeing up his money to sign some guys this offseason just makes sense. Trading Sanchez and Infante for prospects when they aren't going to win this year makes probably sense regardless. If teams blow them away for Johnson, why not listen? They aren't shopping him desperately and they say they were only going to trade one of him and Sanchez. None of this seems remarkable to me.

#25 biggentleben

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:40 AM

Hanley went from a passable defender whose bat overwhelmed his defensive deficiencies at SS to a horrid defensive 3B in two seasons while the bat has been pretty meh both of those years. Eovaldi in that new stadium could be a beast as it plays very well to his strengths. The Marlins are putting together their next pseudo-2003 rotation with guys like Jose Fernandez, Eovaldi, and Jacob Turner headlining a 2014-2015 rotation.
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#26 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

I'll be interested to see how this affects their attendance. They have been in the bottom five of MLB for a dozen years now, and for the first time they've risen above that (new ballpark!). This salary-dump/rebuild-for-a-run-3-years-down-the-road will probably send that back into the toilet. My guess is a few hardcore fans (from "Marlins Daily" no doubt:)) are ecstatic at the forward-looking approach Miami is taking, while the average fan sees them getting rid of the players that made the team interesting for them.

#27 CDog

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:39 AM

I'll be interested to see how this affects their attendance. They have been in the bottom five of MLB for a dozen years now, and for the first time they've risen above that (new ballpark!). This salary-dump/rebuild-for-a-run-3-years-down-the-road will probably send that back into the toilet. My guess is a few hardcore fans (from "Marlins Daily" no doubt:)) are ecstatic at the forward-looking approach Miami is taking, while the average fan sees them getting rid of the players that made the team interesting for them.


I'm going to Miami and taking in a Marlins game late in the season. Even before their season had taken a turn south, tickets on StubHub were plentiful and cheap (the ones I bought were about half what it would have cost to buy through the team site, including all fees). So yeah...the ballpark didn't even seem to be having a HUGE effect even without a bad team to worry about for possibly a few years. Not great news for them, I wouldn't think. And of course, that's a one-game sample, so maybe not a great representation of their situation...

#28 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:57 AM

I was at a game in June and the stadium was half empty.

#29 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:19 AM

I was at a game in June and the stadium was half empty.


I believe that; baseball in Florida in the summer is a tough sell, even indoors. Tampa has the same problem. Even with the bump, they were still in the bottom half of the league - just near the top of that bottom half, instead of near the very bottom.

#30 lecroy24fan

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 04:22 PM

Loria is the worst owner in baseball. Maybe even in all sports.