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Article: Twins Minor League Report (5/11): LeBlanc, Albers, Jay Dominate

randy leblanc tyler jay andrew albers byron buxton max kepler
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#21 HitInAPinch

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 09:31 AM

 

Assuming you mean Buxton, I agree... I think he should spend another month there, just to make sure any adjustments stick.

Yeah, statistics from the last 10 games only don't mean that much to me.Being the stubborn guy that I am, I need to see a seasons worth. 

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#22 nytwinsfan

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 09:43 AM

 

6 K's though....I don't know.....That's got "bust" written all over it.....

 

I'm gonna go ahead and assume you are just kidding/trolling.


#23 spycake

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 09:54 AM

 

So far he is .232/.294/.304 (.598) with 30 K and 10 BB in 32.2 IP.

The FSL as a whole is hitting .241/.314/.344 (.657), and averaging 29 K and 12 BB per 32.2 IP.  The teams that Jay has faced are collectively hitting even worse than that, ranking 6th, 8th, 9th, and 11th out of 12 in raw OPS.

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#24 Dman

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:05 AM

I am a big Jay fan but I was worried about early this year.  he seemed to giving up really good contact early in the season. Maybe he was working on stuff but he was very hit-able.  Lately his result seem more in line with Stewart and Gonsalves.  Hoping he has turned a corner but he still has me concerned.  It is just his first year in pro ball but he was a high first round pick so am expecting great things.


#25 Dman

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:18 AM

 

So, using your point... who pitches at Rochester then if you get rid of those guys that aren't prospects or future big leaguers in your opinion? Gonsalves and Stewart and maybe even Jorge could move up to AA, but then who would pitch at AAA? 

 

I guess they could just forfeit games so that non-prospects don't clog up spots.

 

Of course LeBlanc should move up, but he's moving back to starting, so I have no problem with him getting 5-7 starts in CR before moving up, and again, I assume he moves up when Gonsalves moves up. 

 

I think you took what he said the wrong way.  it seems to me he is simply stating those types of players shouldn't stand in the way of the young pitchers that are showing potential to be number 1, 2 or 3 starters.  I don't think he was saying get rid of every pitcher who is a non-prospect.

 

Right now the only interesting prospect pitcher at AA is Slegers and even he looks like a four or five to me.  You could say Eides but really in the end he is just too hittable.  They really should move him to the pen unless they just want him to be filler.  The rest of the spots appear to filled by guys that have peaked and at best would be number 5's.  Why have those guys block the prospects with greater potential?

 

You can say it is early in the season and it doesn't matter but these guys are only going to throw so many pitches\innings this year and it makes more sense to challenge them and acclimate them to a new level as soon as possible so that you can decide what they can do at the upper levels and if they are worthy of being added to the forty man or helping the Big club ASAP.

 

A lot of us don't see the point in delaying the young pitchers when there is no one of note blocking them.

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#26 nytwinsfan

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:26 AM

 

The FSL as a whole is hitting .241/.314/.344 (.657), and averaging 29 K and 12 BB per 32.2 IP.  The teams that Jay has faced are collectively hitting even worse than that, ranking 6th, 8th, 9th, and 11th out of 12 in raw OPS.

Fair enough. Important context.


#27 Seth Stohs

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:38 AM

 

The FSL as a whole is hitting .241/.314/.344 (.657), and averaging 29 K and 12 BB per 32.2 IP.  The teams that Jay has faced are collectively hitting even worse than that, ranking 6th, 8th, 9th, and 11th out of 12 in raw OPS.

 

Maybe they're hitting worse than that because they're facing the Miracle pitchers?:)

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#28 Seth Stohs

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:44 AM

 

I think you took what he said the wrong way.  it seems to me he is simply stating those types of players shouldn't stand in the way of the young pitchers that are showing potential to be number 1, 2 or 3 starters.  I don't think he was saying get rid of every pitcher who is a non-prospect.

 

Right now the only interesting prospect pitcher at AA is Slegers and even he looks like a four or five to me.  You could say Eides but really in the end he is just too hittable.  They really should move him to the pen unless they just want him to be filler.  The rest of the spots appear to filled by guys that have peaked and at best would be number 5's.  Why have those guys block the prospects with greater potential?

 

You can say it is early in the season and it doesn't matter but these guys are only going to throw so many pitches\innings this year and it makes more sense to challenge them and acclimate them to a new level as soon as possible so that you can decide what they can do at the upper levels and if they are worthy of being added to the forty man or helping the Big club ASAP.

 

A lot of us don't see the point in delaying the young pitchers when there is no one of note blocking them.

 

I'd never say that top prospects should be blocked. I'd also say that keeping a top prospect at the right level isn't always a bad thing either. 

 

I've said many times that I think Gonsalves is ready to move up. I think a case could be made for Stewart. Those two are top prospects. When they deem them ready, they'll make room for those guys. Jay needs to be more consistent. Jorge just needs another 5-6 starts at the level to see how it goes. Pushing guys can be good, or it can be completely detrimental, and I certainly won't pretend to know when the perfect time to promote a pitcher (or hitter, for that matter) is. 

 

LeBlanc and Clay likely move up when Gonsalves and Stewart move up. I'm comfortable with that. But Andrew Albers isn't keeping anyone from pitching at Rochester. Slegers has had mixed success in about 8-10 AA starts. There's no need for him to jump to AAA right now. Giving up on Eades at this point would be silly. Maybe he becomes a long reliever. Maybe he flames out in AA. Maybe he becomes a solid #3 starter, and if Berardino's reports of him hitting 97 this spring was accurate, and he does have 4-pitches, it may click for him in July, or next May... or not at all, but to say at this point he'll never make it isn't right... Pushing him to a level that doesn't put him in a good position to succeed doesn't make sense. 

 

I just think it's silly to say that there is no value in having some organizational filler in the upper levels allowing the organization to be more patient with prospects that they believe in. 


#29 Seth Stohs

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 10:51 AM

 

wow, what a terrible straw man.

 

No one is saying cut every non-prospect. But, we are saying, for a team that has developed almost no on in years, for a league that is getting younger and younger, maybe they should promote players faster. Pick the guys you don't want around in a year or two, and if they get bumped, they get bumped.

 

but, don't keep doing things the terrible way you've been doing them for years.

 

Of course it was a little over the top, but simply put, not all prospects move up at the same pace. You can't make a judgment on every pitcher within 1-2 years. There are fast-risers and there are some that move at a slower pace. The Twins have pushed Berrios to the big leagues at 21. The thought that they don't push their top prospects is silly at this point. But to think that guys like Slegers and Eades and Stewart should be promoted at the same pace isn't fair to the players or the organization. To think that Cody Stashak should be at Ft. Myers just isn't fair to him. He's made 4 starts in Cedar Rapids. 

 

There will be guys like Thorpe and Romero coming up from EST at some point in the next 4-6 weeks, and there will be changes. But to think that guys like Albers don't provide some value to Rochester's roster when 3-4 of their Opening Day starters are in the big leagues isn't fair either. And no, Slegers isn't ready for AAA (and that doesn't make him a lesser prospect because of it)... I can go with DJ Baxendale moving up. I have no problem with that. But teams also need depth. I don't necessarily understand the Nick Greenwood signing, but he's left-handed and pitched for the St. Louis Cardinals (including in the big leagues) the last two years. Why not try to find lightning sometimes? 


#30 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 11:04 AM

All fair, Seth. They have been aggressive with Berrios, why not the others? And, no, given their "success" lately, I don't fully trust them on this stuff.

 

Hopefully they promote Gonsalves and Wade and Chargois (I don't think he's in AAA) soon. Then Stewart shortly after that. 

 

This is an area you and I have (politely) disagreed about on line for some time.....and I'm cool with that disagreement. 

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#31 Dman

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 11:06 AM

 

I'd never say that top prospects should be blocked. I'd also say that keeping a top prospect at the right level isn't always a bad thing either. 

 

I've said many times that I think Gonsalves is ready to move up. I think a case could be made for Stewart. Those two are top prospects. When they deem them ready, they'll make room for those guys. Jay needs to be more consistent. Jorge just needs another 5-6 starts at the level to see how it goes. Pushing guys can be good, or it can be completely detrimental, and I certainly won't pretend to know when the perfect time to promote a pitcher (or hitter, for that matter) is. 

 

LeBlanc and Clay likely move up when Gonsalves and Stewart move up. I'm comfortable with that. But Andrew Albers isn't keeping anyone from pitching at Rochester. Slegers has had mixed success in about 8-10 AA starts. There's no need for him to jump to AAA right now. Giving up on Eades at this point would be silly. Maybe he becomes a long reliever. Maybe he flames out in AA. Maybe he becomes a solid #3 starter, and if Berardino's reports of him hitting 97 this spring was accurate, and he does have 4-pitches, it may click for him in July, or next May... or not at all, but to say at this point he'll never make it isn't right... Pushing him to a level that doesn't put him in a good position to succeed doesn't make sense. 

 

I just think it's silly to say that there is no value in having some organizational filler in the upper levels allowing the organization to be more patient with prospects that they believe in.

 

I agree that none of us know the exact right time to promote players and the Twins Coaches have a much better feel for that than than the box score fans.  However, you start looking at what those guys are doing are high A and you start to wonder what more do they have to learn at that level?  It just doesn't even seem challenging for Gonsalves, Stewart and Jorge there.

 

Sure promoting to soon can be detrimental and the jump for pitchers from High A to double A is a tough one but life is full of challenges and risk.  In many ways you either sink or swim as you move up.  There is a lot of support for players and a lot of these guys have tough mental makeups they aren't really made of glass.

 

Promoting too slow has it's own risks.  It can create a sense of over confidence and can stunt growth as the player is no longer challenged.  It also wastes the Orgs potential use of that player over time if they make it to the MLB.  So there is risk either way.

 

Can't argue on Eides it is just my opinion based on box scores.  He has a good game and then a bad game and he gives up a lot of hits.  Just seems better suited to the pen to me.  Something could click but he seems to have been the same pitcher all the way up so I personally don;t see him changing.


#32 Seth Stohs

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 11:38 AM

 

All fair, Seth. They have been aggressive with Berrios, why not the others? And, no, given their "success" lately, I don't fully trust them on this stuff.

 

Hopefully they promote Gonsalves and Wade and Chargois (I don't think he's in AAA) soon. Then Stewart shortly after that. 

 

This is an area you and I have (politely) disagreed about on line for some time.....and I'm cool with that disagreement. 

 

Chargois moved up to AAA on Saturday (sometime over the weekend)... Agree on Gonsalves... They can't just be cookie cutter though. Best thing they did for Kohl Stewart was letting him stay in Ft. Myers to start this season. Maybe the best thing for LeBlanc was to let him start in CR. Berrios should be the exception, not the rule... He's really good. Just too many variables.

 

Wade... sure...

 

But a week ago, many said Palka should move up and he's struggled the last 10 days... Doesn't hurt for them to prove their first month at a new level to be fact rather than mirage, ya know?


#33 Mike Sixel

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 11:44 AM

Ah, thanks, with the move out of MN today, my brain is not fully functional....I forgot the Chargois news.

 

Heh, I was never on the Palka promotion train, but I know others were. 

 

I had no issue starting Stewart at FTM, and I'd be ok with another start or two for him there. But, Gonsalves was good there last year, and is good there this year. It's just time.

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#34 Seth Stohs

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 11:59 AM

 

Ah, thanks, with the move out of MN today, my brain is not fully functional....I forgot the Chargois news.

 

Heh, I was never on the Palka promotion train, but I know others were. 

 

I had no issue starting Stewart at FTM, and I'd be ok with another start or two for him there. But, Gonsalves was good there last year, and is good there this year. It's just time.

 

Agree on Gonsalves... maybe they want him to put up some crazy numbers to improve his odds of pitching in the Futures Game in his hometown of San Diego. That would be awesome if he got to do that. When did Berrios move up a couple of years ago? He moved up and made 1-2 starts for New Britain before the Futures Game. 

 

But, aside from Gonsalves and maybe Wade, we aren't talking about a lot of guys. It's not some catastrophic situation. 

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#35 FormerMinnasotan

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 12:02 PM

Great game for Jay!! I think though he will spend more time in Fort Meyer's simply because this is his first year starting and I feel that the Twins want to see Jay become more consistent as a starter. Also if it wasn't for the fact Jay will likely see an innings limit this year (for obvious reason) Jay might be sent to Chattanooga. Oh well he'll be there at the start of next season.

#36 Seth Stohs

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 12:35 PM

 

Great game for Jay!! I think though he will spend more time in Fort Meyer's simply because this is his first year starting and I feel that the Twins want to see Jay become more consistent as a starter. Also if it wasn't for the fact Jay will likely see an innings limit this year (for obvious reason) Jay might be sent to Chattanooga. Oh well he'll be there at the start of next season.

 

My thought on this is this:

 

Start in Ft. Myers until July 1 or 15 or so, and the move to the bullpen. At that point, he could move up to Chattanooga to pitch out of the bullpen. 

 

Next year, start the season in Chattanooga, as a starter. See how he does. Maybe it's August 1st when he moves to the bullpen, or maybe he's strong throughout and they can still limit innings. Who knows, he could come up by the end of 2017 depending on need and role. 


#37 spycake

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 01:48 PM

Why should Jay be on an innings limit?  A full season starting at high-A should only be about 130 innings. He threw 85 last year between college and the pros.  Tyler Duffey went from 70 to 120 a few years ago.  Berrios (103) and Stewart (87) wound up with lower innings counts in their first full seasons, but they were both 19 year old high school draftees who each missed a handful of starts those years.

 

If he's pitching well, there should be no reason to mess with Jay to limit his innings.  The shorter season and 6 man rotation are already enough to do that.




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