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#2001 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:30 PM

 

why is Dan in quotes?

 

Might be referring to an old BYTO poster who absolutely adored Mauer.

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#2002 Monkeypaws

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:07 PM

 

Why? It doesn't sound like he's disputing that Mauer has played well defensively.

I don't get that vibe from the quote. Perhaps in context it makes sense.

 

why is Dan in quotes?

 

Cuz "Dan" ain't my buddy, that's why :-D


#2003 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:23 PM

 

You've put much, much more time into this issue than Sullivan had available to answer in the chat setting, by a factor of hundreds if not thousands. It's flat out impossible to meet your standard here in that setting.

No, it's really not. In a professional setting, I type a lot of things to a lot of people. I somehow manage to not throw anyone under the bus unless I intend to throw them under a bus.

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#2004 drivlikejehu

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:32 PM

 

No, it's really not. In a professional setting, I type a lot of things to a lot of people. I somehow manage to not throw anyone under the bus unless I intend to throw them under a bus.

 

I doubt it's really a sensible comparison, but even if it is, the way you type things at work would be a complete flop for an internet sports chat medium.

 

You're attaching an importance to the chats that just isn't there. It's a casual internet conversation, it doesn't actually matter, and being boring on purpose to avoid offending people like you would be counter-productive overall.

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#2005 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:16 PM

 

I doubt it's really a sensible comparison, but even if it is, the way you type things at work would be a complete flop for an internet sports chat medium.

 

You're attaching an importance to the chats that just isn't there. It's a casual internet conversation, it doesn't actually matter, and being boring on purpose to avoid offending people like you would be counter-productive overall.

Where we disagree is that taking pointless shots at organizations is the only way to be entertaining.


#2006 drjim

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:44 PM

I find the chats useful to find out which national guys really know their stuff and which fall into repeating lazy narratives.
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#2007 drivlikejehu

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:57 PM

 

Where we disagree is that taking pointless shots at organizations is the only way to be entertaining.

 

I thought it was pretty clearly tongue-in-cheek. Regardless, your comments on this are not too far off from "Keith Law hates my team" sort of stuff . . . there are posters on this site that act like Falvey is a mentally-handicapped mole in the employ of Cleveland, so off-hand chat comments from people trying to cover 30 teams just don't seem worthy of such righteous condemnation.

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#2008 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:46 PM

 

I thought it was pretty clearly tongue-in-cheek. Regardless, your comments on this are not too far off from "Keith Law hates my team" sort of stuff . . . there are posters on this site that act like Falvey is a mentally-handicapped mole in the employ of Cleveland, so off-hand chat comments from people trying to cover 30 teams just don't seem worthy of such righteous condemnation.

I notice that with all the people disagreeing with my opinion on the chat, no one actually seems to want to debate whether the comment was dumb.

 

Yet I'm the one projecting a "Keith Law hates my team" vibe. By saying Sullivan's comment was dumb. Not Sullivan, just the comment.

 

And no one seems to disagree with me on that.

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#2009 drivlikejehu

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:02 PM

 



I notice that with all the people disagreeing with my opinion on the chat, no one actually seems to want to debate whether the comment was dumb.

 

Yet I'm the one projecting a "Keith Law hates my team" vibe. By saying Sullivan's comment was dumb. Not Sullivan, just the comment.

 

And no one seems to disagree with me there.

 

I don't agree about the comment because I don't think he was being literal. But sure, your wildly excessive reaction to it did kind of overshadow the underlying topic, which by itself was barely even worth making this thread. I won't comment on it further though, since [a] it's so irrelevant as to arguably be off-topic or even against site rules and [b] I have no right to tell you to placidly accept the fact that Jeff Sullivan Hates the Twins.

Edited by drivlikejehu, 13 September 2017 - 11:02 PM.

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#2010 70charger

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:08 PM

 

I agree in general. I sometimes thinks it's useful, though, to question some of the assumptions that are baked into statistical analysis (especially sabermetrics), which people sometimes treat as objective truths. For example, that home runs are valuable is self evident, but the extent to which they're valuable isn't. Part of that judgment depends on the context in which a player hits his homers, and part depends on the biases of individual evaluators. So yeah, I just think it's worth pointing out that these stats are actually narratives we tell ourselves and not objective statements of fact.

 

Well that I can agree with. These stats certainly shouldn't be dogma.


#2011 ChiTownTwinsFan

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 03:59 AM

Mod note: Please move on as this is turning into bickering. Someone said something. Someone disagreed. And someone disagreed with the disagreeing. You all have made your points so let's not sidetrack this thread any further.
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#2012 Mike Sixel

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:59 AM

Mario Mendoza12:24 Jorge Polanco???? FG prospect writers always spoke highly of him, but man, he was so bad, and, now, he's so hot. Did something click? What do expect for 2018?

 

Eno Sarris12:24 Maybe that's what I should write about. Because it's crazy to me. And I don't know why.

 

Art Vandelay 12:37 I know the Twins have a rough playoff history against the Yankees, but I feel like a wild card game is exactly the thing to exorcise those demons. I'm here for it. WIN TWINS! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

Eno Sarris 12:37 Put it all on Berrios?

 

$11 Worth of Taco Bell  1:27 Should Max Kepler hit for more power than he has?

 

Eno Sarris  1:27 Does not hit the ball very hard or in great angles. But wears out the ball down the line and is smart. Good player, not great, shouldn't hit for more power unless he adjusts.

 

1:33 Heraclitus: Does Trevor Hildenberger have top-ten reliever upside?

 

1:33 Eno Sarris: Funky release, tough on guys who haven’t seen him before, doubt he’s a closer type.

 

http://www.fangraphs...all-chat-91417/

 

 

Edited by Mike Sixel, 14 September 2017 - 11:53 AM.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#2013 Mike Sixel

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 01:12 PM

An article on Polanco:

 

http://www.fangraphs...e-step-process/

 

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#2014 Mike Sixel

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 01:17 PM

9:35Julio Pepper: Byron Buxton is running a 250 wRC+ on bunts. While there are diminishing returns to doing more of anything in baseball, it feels like Byron Buxton isn’t at that point. Should he be bunting a lot more?

 

9:35  Jeff Sullivan: His wRC+ on bunts last year was 78
9:36  Jeff Sullivan: He’s already third in baseball this year in bunt hits. I think he could probably stand to bunt a *little* more often but now that he can actually hit, it’s more something to keep in his back pocket

 

 

10:35 Otani Danza: Twins have six games against NYY(3) and CLE(3) but have 5 games against DET.Mariners have six against HOU and CLE and they’re 3.5 back.Mariner chances of hauling them back over under 10%?

 

10:35   Jeff Sullivan: Mariners need a miracle
10:36 O’s Nos : Realistically does anyone have a shot at the second AL wild card other than the Twins, Angels, and maybe the Mariners?
10:36 Jeff Sullivan: Not really. Twins’ recent strong play has mostly locked it up

 

11:01 Jay: Am I wrong to still not buy these performances from Buxton and Zunino? Both running high BABIPs, K% only slightly improved and Buxton’s BB% is actually down all while neither have seen a huge change in batted ball profile.

 

 

11:01 Jeff Sullivan: You’re not wrong to be wary. Zunino is kind of maxing out his power, and that’s a volatile skill. And with Buxton, I was encouraged by his improvement in contact rate, but lately that’s started to go away again
11:02
Jeff Sullivan: Maybe the more important takeaway is that neither player needs to be a good hitter to be valuable, because Zunino is a catcher, and Buxton is a tremendous baserunner who might be the best defensive center fielder on the planet

 

 

http://www.fangraphs...phs-chat-91517/

Edited by Mike Sixel, 15 September 2017 - 01:36 PM.

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I don't know, it is a site to discuss sports, not airline safety.....maybe we should take it less seriously?


#2015 Thrylos

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:25 PM

Baseball Prospectus by Mr Matthew Trueblood: Rubbing Mud: The Arrival of Kyle Gibson

 

Draw your own conclusions.

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#2016 old nurse

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:25 PM

 

9:35Julio Pepper: Byron Buxton is running a 250 wRC+ on bunts. While there are diminishing returns to doing more of anything in baseball, it feels like Byron Buxton isn’t at that point. Should he be bunting a lot more?

 

9:35  Jeff Sullivan: His wRC+ on bunts last year was 78
9:36  Jeff Sullivan: He’s already third in baseball this year in bunt hits. I think he could probably stand to bunt a *little* more often but now that he can actually hit, it’s more something to keep in his back pocket

 

 

10:35 Otani Danza: Twins have six games against NYY(3) and CLE(3) but have 5 games against DET.Mariners have six against HOU and CLE and they’re 3.5 back.Mariner chances of hauling them back over under 10%?

 

10:35   Jeff Sullivan: Mariners need a miracle
10:36 O’s Nos : Realistically does anyone have a shot at the second AL wild card other than the Twins, Angels, and maybe the Mariners?
10:36 Jeff Sullivan: Not really. Twins’ recent strong play has mostly locked it up

 

11:01 Jay: Am I wrong to still not buy these performances from Buxton and Zunino? Both running high BABIPs, K% only slightly improved and Buxton’s BB% is actually down all while neither have seen a huge change in batted ball profile.

 

 

11:01 Jeff Sullivan: You’re not wrong to be wary. Zunino is kind of maxing out his power, and that’s a volatile skill. And with Buxton, I was encouraged by his improvement in contact rate, but lately that’s started to go away again
11:02
Jeff Sullivan: Maybe the more important takeaway is that neither player needs to be a good hitter to be valuable, because Zunino is a catcher, and Buxton is a tremendous baserunner who might be the best defensive center fielder on the planet

 

 

http://www.fangraphs...phs-chat-91517/

Byron Buxton has a .332 BABIP. That is not that high for a player with speed.

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#2017 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:53 PM

Byron Buxton has a .332 BABIP. That is not that high for a player with speed.

That's still pretty high. Maybe Buxton can max out around .350 but it's hard to see him higher than that. My understanding is that line drive rate correlates more strongly with BABIP than speed.

#2018 amjgt

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:32 PM

That's still pretty high. Maybe Buxton can max out around .350 but it's hard to see him higher than that. My understanding is that line drive rate correlates more strongly with BABIP than speed.


Seems to me that someone that is bunting for a decent amount of hits is going to have an inflated BABIP

#2019 old nurse

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 08:53 PM

 

That's still pretty high. Maybe Buxton can max out around .350 but it's hard to see him higher than that. My understanding is that line drive rate correlates more strongly with BABIP than speed.

Speed has alittle correlation.Buxton has about a 1% higher LD % than league average.About 25 % than league average,on bunts. That is about half of the difference between hisBABIP and league average. Spray charts show a good number of line drives over the shortsop.


#2020 spycake

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 09:46 AM

Thank you. On top of removing agency from the player (and where your lawyer analogy falls a bit short) is the use of "did". That's not passive. That's declaring an act perpetrated by someone (in this case, named).

Again, without evidence. With no bias, that statement would have read much more benign and would have pointed out a deficiency in peripheral stats, not an accusation of wrong doing.

Doubly so in seven ****ing starts. Fangraphs writers know better than that, which is my real point. Are they attention grabbing ESPN talking heads? Are they Souhan? Or are they Fangraphs writers?

I expect better of them because I know they're better, particularly in a situation that was so easily avoidable (and should have been avoidable by default minus bias).


Have you considered that your bias here might be on just as much display as the writer's? Imagine if the question was about buying Trevor Cahill, and the chat response was "No. I don't know what the Royals did to him, but it wasn't good." Is that really a statement alleging "an act perpetrated" against Cahill by the Royals, or is it really just one way to say the earlier performance of this marginal player was not sustainable? Maybe not the perfect way, but virtually the same idea comes up constantly in baseball chats and it becomes a bit of a struggle to try expressing it in a new, creative way. Maybe my hypothetical writer has previously criticized the Royals too, just like some Fangraphs folk have picked on the Twins, and that colored their choice of words. But to reject it and denounce the writer for a literal accusation of malfeasance is almost to deny the basic facts involved (marginal player, common regression scenario).
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