Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

The Store

Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

Recent Blogs


Photo

Trade Josh Willingham

  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1 neboo

neboo

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:14 AM

Ok, I love Josh Willingham. He has come in and been exactly what the Twins needed, he seems like a great guy, and he likes it here. The problem is, by the time the twins are actually contenders, Willingham will be past his prime and on the way out. The twins are in position to bring in the biggest haul at the deadline. With Willingham being arguably the best rh power hitter available, and with more teams in contention at the deadline than ever, this makes so much sense. Willingham also has value in that he is under team control for a few years. Gone are the days of renting a player and still getting draft compensation for them. While I agree that the move doesn't look the best from a PR perspective, it has to be done. Good FA's will not look away from Minnesota in the future because of this, they more likely will be attracted to the team, considering they will be in better position to contend. I would like to hear others' opinions on this.
I'll Denard your Span.

#2 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,137 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:18 AM

Still $17 million left on that contract and it's for 2+ years. That slows this down a bit. And the Twins should probably hold on to him so they don't revert to a 63-win team in 2013 and REALLY drive away fans from the park.

#3 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,538 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:22 AM

17M for 2 years is a bargain for what Willingham has done so far. That contract will be a bonus in the deal, not a hinderance.

#4 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,569 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:41 AM

7M/yr left on his contract does not slow this down at all. His injury history is what might make teams pause but it's also the reason that the Twins should shop him.

#5 Snortwood

Snortwood

    Member

  • Members
  • 37 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:24 AM

Trade from strength. OF is the position of strength in the organization. If a starting pitcher or a few arms that can bring heat are offered in return it's a deal that has to be made.

Edited by Snortwood, 22 July 2012 - 10:25 AM.
typo


#6 Roaddog

Roaddog

    Member

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

I like Willingham and i love that he just stays quiet does his job. But he also has value as a trading chip. This organization is rebuilding. If he could bring some good high ceiling guys (pitching please) rebuilding would go a whole lot better.

#7 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,145 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:48 AM

All the trade rumors are tagged with the prospective GM's saying they wont give up top prospects for rental players. Now that you can't get comp picks for traded players, trading guys still under contract next year might be the only way to get any valuable prospects back.

#8 mnfireman

mnfireman

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 195 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:49 AM

No, Willingham should not be traded. Hicks, Benson, Sano, Arcia, etc... are 2-3 yrs away from making the majors. How many of you would watch Revere, Mastroianni, Mauer, Doumit, Plouffe, Parmalee, Carroll, Dozier, Casilla play. The team has got to keep some major league players for this season and next. Span & Liriano are the two best chips to deal, and then hope the kids at AA & AAA are ready next year and the year after.

#9 Roaddog

Roaddog

    Member

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:23 AM

Disagree. Keeping Willingham isn't gonna keep fans. But playing the younger kids and giving at atbats to Parmalee and others would be more beneficial to the future.

#10 fatbeer

fatbeer

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 147 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:38 PM

As fans we shouldn't care about contracts when it comes to trades. Can we get back players worthy of giving up Willinghams production when he's 34 and 35 years old? I would assume we can. The team trading an overpaid player almost always picks up a good portion of the salary anyways so it's no different we're simply picking up the extra 0 dollars that another team might be unwilling to pay.

#11 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:48 PM

No, Willingham should not be traded. Hicks, Benson, Sano, Arcia, etc... are 2-3 yrs away from making the majors. How many of you would watch Revere, Mastroianni, Mauer, Doumit, Plouffe, Parmalee, Carroll, Dozier, Casilla play. The team has got to keep some major league players for this season and next. Span & Liriano are the two best chips to deal, and then hope the kids at AA & AAA are ready next year and the year after.


what kids in AAA/ nishi, floimon,hollimon,valencia,carson?

#12 Mchans24

Mchans24

    Member

  • Members
  • 86 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:32 PM

No, Willingham should not be traded. Hicks, Benson, Sano, Arcia, etc... are 2-3 yrs away from making the majors. How many of you would watch Revere, Mastroianni, Mauer, Doumit, Plouffe, Parmalee, Carroll, Dozier, Casilla play. The team has got to keep some major league players for this season and next. Span & Liriano are the two best chips to deal, and then hope the kids at AA & AAA are ready next year and the year after.



Benson,Hicks and Arcia are damn near ready for th big leagues now. Jump from AA tobig leagues is not all that uncommon. We need to make room for the young kids and build our rotation for when they get here!!! Trading Willingham and Span will bring back the assets needed to do that. Make it happen!!

#13 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,184 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

Benson,Hicks and Arcia are damn near ready for th big leagues now.


No they aren't.

#14 Badsmerf

Badsmerf

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,770 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:32 PM

Why aren't they Dave? Arcia is killing it, Hicks is having a nice season and Benson since coming back has been good.

#15 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,181 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:46 PM

Why aren't they Dave? Arcia is killing it, Hicks is having a nice season and Benson since coming back has been good.


Each still has issues to work out (Benson consistency, Hicks right/left split, Arcia strikeouts). I don't see any reason to rush them even if one of them "looks" ready in the next month. Call them up in September and give them a taste of MLB pitching (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) and then prep them for 2013, where one or all of them should start in AAA and then get a call early next season. I don't see a reason to start the clock on any of them when none of them have had prolonged success in AA. They'll be up soon enough.

Besides, there is no room in the OF for any of them right now.

#16 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 6,994 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:07 PM

They are a lot closer than 2-3 years away, I think most of us can agree on that part. I see no reason to keep Willingham right now. They stink to high heaven again this year. They are going to stink next year, trade him and get players that can really help in 2013/4 and beyond. Seems like a good guy, does seem to like it here, I agree, that human element does matter. But what matters more, if you are the GM, is getting the best players into the system.

What I just typed is probably an opinion, not a fact. I mean, I'm usually right, so you should maybe assume it is or will be a fact soon, but that's up to you. :)


#17 Dilligaf69

Dilligaf69

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 365 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:09 PM

I don't see it....the Twins will try to fix their SP(no..I don't know how) this offseason and try to contend in still a avg division next yr...the Hammer will still have alot of value next July if they fall out of it again.

#18 Mchans24

Mchans24

    Member

  • Members
  • 86 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:34 PM

No they aren't.



Oh, please enlighten me?

#19 Mchans24

Mchans24

    Member

  • Members
  • 86 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:38 PM

IfBenson isn't an every day player next year it may not happen!! Hicks and Arcia will both get a cup of coffee this year and you never know when a player will stick. Dozier played most of last year in AA and a couple weeks I AAA this year and is now a full time big leaguer. Why can't Arcia and Hicks do the same?

#20 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,184 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

Oh, please enlighten me?


I guess it depends on what you mean by "damn near ML ready" If you are saying they could be brought up in the next few weeks and be effective major leaguers I think you are mistaken as none of these guys are knocking on the door at this point. I think all three will be up sometime in 2013 but its not a guarantee any will be effective major leaguers in 2013 as often times there is quite an adjustment period before these guys preform at a major league level.
For one:
Benson has been awful 90% of this season and Arcia and Hicks both need to work on the things Pig posted above. I'm as huge of a Hicks homer as they come, but it should be noted that he wasn't doing a ton the past couple years up until these past 2-3 months. It wouldn't shock me to see him suddenly struggle again if he went up to the majors. Arcia looks like the safest bet at this point to succeed, but I'd like to see more than 100 PA above Ft Myers before I suddenly pencil him into a starting role.

Just because we have some nice depth in the minors doesn't mean we should just dump our current productive outfielders, it's not like there is some sudden rush to trade Willingham now anyways. If he keeps playing well we can always trade him next season if Hicks, Arcia and/or Benson are knocking on the door.

#21 spideyo

spideyo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 603 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:42 PM

Why trade him now, before the deadline? Assuming he finishes the season on the same pace he's kept, he'll still be valuable as a trade chip in the off-season. Plus, right now the only people that would trade a lot for him are those looking to make the post season. Over the winter you will have a much broader pool of potential trading partners. Is there any benefit to netting prospects now, as opposed to in November? Are there any major prospects that are being dangled out there right now that we expect won't be available in 3-4 months? Is there anyone in the twins system that would actually benefit significantly from us losing an OF starter right now? Just as with Span, Willingham is in our control for awhile, and there is no reason to go out and jump on any deal we can get. His hitting style fits extremely well in Target Field, I don't think there is any reason to expect that him playing their longer will decrease his trade value.

#22 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,181 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:42 PM

IfBenson isn't an every day player next year it may not happen!! Hicks and Arcia will both get a cup of coffee this year and you never know when a player will stick. Dozier played most of last year in AA and a couple weeks I AAA this year and is now a full time big leaguer. Why can't Arcia and Hicks do the same?


I don't think anyone is arguing that they can't do the same. Hicks has a lot of ABs in New Britain but Arcia only has 100. Dozier, an inferior prospect to both, had 300 in AA and another 100 in AAA the next season.

At the latest, I think one or all of Hicks/Benson/Arcia will be knocking on the door by May of next year. Benson has age, Hicks has the steady time and production at AA, while Arcia has the pure masher talent.

#23 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,184 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:46 PM

IfBenson isn't an every day player next year it may not happen!! Hicks and Arcia will both get a cup of coffee this year and you never know when a player will stick. Dozier played most of last year in AA and a couple weeks I AAA this year and is now a full time big leaguer. Why can't Arcia and Hicks do the same?


I like Dozier and think he can stick eventually, but let's be honest, the guy has been pretty bad in his time on the big league club. Defensively he has been close to average and offensively he has been rather awful with a .591 OPS. I'd hate to see Willingham and his .950 OPS+ replaced with a guy who could potentially put up a Dozier like line because he isn't fully ready.

#24 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,546 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:41 PM

Why trade him now, before the deadline? Assuming he finishes the season on the same pace he's kept, he'll still be valuable as a trade chip in the off-season. Plus, right now the only people that would trade a lot for him are those looking to make the post season. Over the winter you will have a much broader pool of potential trading partners.

Is there any benefit to netting prospects now, as opposed to in November? Are there any major prospects that are being dangled out there right now that we expect won't be available in 3-4 months? Is there anyone in the twins system that would actually benefit significantly from us losing an OF starter right now?

Just as with Span, Willingham is in our control for awhile, and there is no reason to go out and jump on any deal we can get. His hitting style fits extremely well in Target Field, I don't think there is any reason to expect that him playing their longer will decrease his trade value.


He has much more value than he would in the offseason. Teams are trying to win now and need him for a playoff push. In the offseason there are other ways to acquire a player similar to him.

The issue is that if the Twins trade Willingham at the deadline they will basically be punting next season. They might be able to sign a guy or two, but I would argue the Twins have 2 holes they have to be thinking upgrade this offseason (2B and RF), and if they move Willingham that adds another one. Add to the rotation and that is a lot to change over.

Obviously if Ryan is bowled over he should move him, but I don't see that happening.
Papers...business papers.

#25 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,538 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:56 PM

I fail to see why we can't expect to have Benson/Parmalee as OF options next year. If you get a good offer for Willingham - pull it.

#26 drjim

drjim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,546 posts
  • LocationSt. Paul

Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:03 PM

I fail to see why we can't expect to have Benson/Parmalee as OF options next year. If you get a good offer for Willingham - pull it.


Because they have done nothing to prove they can consistently hit major league pitching?

If you trade Willingham you are conceding a complete rebuilding year for next year, I don't think they are ready for that for a variety of reasons.
Papers...business papers.

#27 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,538 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:16 PM

Because they have done nothing to prove they can consistently hit major league pitching?

If you trade Willingham you are conceding a complete rebuilding year for next year, I don't think they are ready for that for a variety of reasons.


Benson was up with this team last year. He was considered in the running for RF going into ST. He's not as far off as is being portrayed here. Certainly Parmalee isn't.

Next year should be conceded regardless, this team has a lot going right this year and is still one of the worst teams in baseball. The illusion we aren't that far off is skewed. Add into that Willingham's age, career year, and lack of injuries and we are risking a "sell high" moment that is all but slapping us in the face. Of course, if you don't get the sell high price, don't sell.

#28 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,184 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:20 PM

Add into that Willingham's age, career year, and lack of injuries and we are risking a "sell high" moment that is all but slapping us in the face. Of course, if you don't get the sell high price, don't sell.

I agree with this, I just don't see the "sell high" price being paid at this point by any teams. The whole trade market as a whole seems to be lacking "sell high" offers, people are even saying they wouldn't give up a ton for a Hamels or Greinke at the deadline.

If the offer makes sense, do it, but just don't trade Willingham to trade him.

#29 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 9,181 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:26 PM

I agree with this, I just don't see the "sell high" price being paid at this point by any teams. The whole trade market as a whole seems to be lacking "sell high" offers, people are even saying they wouldn't give up a ton for a Hamels or Greinke at the deadline.

If the offer makes sense, do it, but just don't trade Willingham to trade him.


Yes. I think we should all be a little concerned about this deadline. With the changes in arbitration, sandwich picks, and the overall market, I think there's a chance the baseball trade deadline has been marginalized.

It's only July 22nd but has there been a trade worth noting yet? Usually we see one or two teams jumping on something early trying to get a leg up but this July has been eerily quiet.

#30 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 4,967 posts

Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

wasn't there just a big Houston/Toronto splash?