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Article: The Stress of the Trade Deadline

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#1 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:29 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...-Trade-Deadline

#2 COtwin

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:42 AM

Thanks for helping put things into perspective. I think we have seen so many of "our" player walk and speak of it being a business. It's easy to forget that some actually do feel loyalty. Can't imagine what that would feel like if my employer traded me Trenton, NJ.

#3 Thrylos

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:48 AM

Thanks for helping put things into perspective. I think we have seen so many of "our" player walk and speak of it being a business. It's easy to forget that some actually do feel loyalty. Can't imagine what that would feel like if my employer traded me Trenton, NJ.


Understood, but 99% of the non-players would not mind if their employer traded them to a team in Antarctica, if they were making a few million a year or even half a million minimum wage to play a kid's sport. Trenton is not too bad actually if you are in the right place during day time. And the ball park is pretty nice.
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#4 COtwin

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:56 AM

Oh don't get me wrong. Getting Paid for Play makes me feel about as sorry as Michael Corrleone. It's just nice to think that some of them might share some of my sentiments. Probably a pipe dream.

#5 Shane Wahl

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:49 AM

The stress of reading about trade speculation here is enough to make me crazy.

#6 Rosterman

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:46 AM

Sometimes, trade speculation makes one feel unwanted, but you are actually wanted by someone else. And all this trade talk is just trade talk. I love fan talk about trades, but it is so often one-sided...how can we get the greatest stuff in the world for our unwanted used and boring junk. You may ride busses, make little money and such playing ball in the minors...but msot of the players have received some sort of bonus (many $100,000+) and in the real world...how much did you make as a 19-year-old, or 20, or 22, or 24...or at 26 when you were still living at home in the basement cause your supposed high-tech job went south. You get to eat, drink and play ball every day, all day. If you don't spend money, you don't need to make a lot. Frankie is wise not to say anything bad about the Twins. He will still need offers in his free agent search, wherever he is...and you don't want to burn bridges. And Morneau...it is a business. Can the Twins be better served without his 2013 salary? He could still have the option of coming back (remember Rick Aguilera). Loyalty is such a BIG word in the sport. We all saw how well it worked with Nathan (coming off 1 1/2 years of Twins salary for Tommy John recovery) and Michael Cuddyer (who played his entire career with the Twins organization). It is still a business. I feel you are worth X$$$ and you fel y$$$$$. The tough part about this business is health and such...as we saw the Twins horizon for trading players for anything took a hit with Capps and Pavano going down...now the Twins can best hope to shed just some of their salary, if need be. And Trenton isn't bad...within driving distance of so many major league ballparks, plus lots of minor league clubs. And what is with the Astros...shedding four players and getting 10 or something back in return. We have to look at this Astro July in 2-3 years to see if it panned out.

#7 jimbo92107

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:06 AM

I bought a Cuddyer jersey a couple years ago because I admired the guy and thought he'd be a Twin his whole career. What am I gonna do with my Lirano jersey in a couple weeks? From now on I'm only buying jerseys of retired players.

#8 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:47 AM

A 'good' GM doesnt treat his players as humans with feelings, but as assets to the business. That's how you end up thinking your good friends like Torri Hunter will want to stay here & he instead chases the money & you end up with nothing. Gardy treats his players as buddies also instead of guys working for him/company....personally believe that thought process is why he's 5-22 in playoffs. He isnt hard enough on players prefers to be buddies. Teams talk of doin whats right for the players (pitch count, etc) when they shouldnt care about the player & do whats right for the team...ex MIL w/CC, pitching him 9IP every start to 150 pitches cause they knew they wouldnt resign him.

#9 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:59 AM

A 'good' GM doesnt treat his players as humans with feelings, but as assets to the business.
That's how you end up thinking your good friends like Torri Hunter will want to stay here & he instead chases the money & you end up with nothing.
Gardy treats his players as buddies also instead of guys working for him/company....personally believe that thought process is why he's 5-22 in playoffs. He isnt hard enough on players prefers to be buddies.
Teams talk of doin whats right for the players (pitch count, etc) when they shouldnt care about the player & do whats right for the team...ex MIL w/CC, pitching him 9IP every start to 150 pitches cause they knew they wouldnt resign him.


Right. Because if Gardenhire had only willed his players to play better, the Twins would have multiple championships.

Let's just admit that the manager has very little sway on what happens on-field and get on with our days.

PS. Good GMs treat their players like human beings, just like any good boss treats his/her employees like human beings. They just don't let their entire decision be swayed by emotion.

#10 IdahoPilgrim

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:04 PM

A 'good' GM doesnt treat his players as humans with feelings, but as assets to the business.
That's how you end up thinking your good friends like Torri Hunter will want to stay here & he instead chases the money & you end up with nothing.
Gardy treats his players as buddies also instead of guys working for him/company....personally believe that thought process is why he's 5-22 in playoffs. He isnt hard enough on players prefers to be buddies.
Teams talk of doin whats right for the players (pitch count, etc) when they shouldnt care about the player & do whats right for the team...ex MIL w/CC, pitching him 9IP every start to 150 pitches cause they knew they wouldnt resign him.


I can't speak to baseball in particular, but in general I have found the opposite to be true (and I have been in a position of leading an organization with employees several times). You ALWAYS treat your employees as humans with feelings. You don't try to be their friends, but you make sure that they know that you see them as more than just assets. That's the way you actually get the most production out of them. Yes, ultimately decisions have to be made as to what best enables the organization as a whole to be successful in whatever business it is in, and employees need to understand that (and most of them do), but employee morale is often a big component of overall success, and how you treat people is a big component of morale.

#11 Thrylos

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:14 PM

I can't speak to baseball in particular, but in general I have found the opposite to be true (and I have been in a position of leading an organization with employees several times). You ALWAYS treat your employees as humans with feelings. You don't try to be their friends, but you make sure that they know that you see them as more than just assets. That's the way you actually get the most production out of them. Yes, ultimately decisions have to be made as to what best enables the organization as a whole to be successful in whatever business it is in, and employees need to understand that (and most of them do), but employee morale is often a big component of overall success, and how you treat people is a big component of morale.


Understood and at the field manager level, that should be it. And promotions to the majors and to the higher levels in the minors should be merit based (Like in business. These guys make more $ when at the majors and at higher MiLB levels.) Alas, that is not the case with the Twins. Too many ridiculous promotions and too many inequalities on the way the manager treats players.

That said, at the GM and FO level, because unlike in a business where you cannot trade your staff to your competitors and get some of their people in return to improve your business, you can trade players to other clubs. That is why should be seen as assets as well. At that level.
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#12 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:21 PM

A 'good' GM doesnt treat his players as humans with feelings, but as assets to the business.
That's how you end up thinking your good friends like Torri Hunter will want to stay here & he instead chases the money & you end up with nothing.
Gardy treats his players as buddies also instead of guys working for him/company....personally believe that thought process is why he's 5-22 in playoffs. He isnt hard enough on players prefers to be buddies.
Teams talk of doin whats right for the players (pitch count, etc) when they shouldnt care about the player & do whats right for the team...ex MIL w/CC, pitching him 9IP every start to 150 pitches cause they knew they wouldnt resign him.


I don't thin that I could possibly disagree with a forum entry more than I disagree with this one.

#13 Rosterman

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:07 PM

Rosters decisions is another whole ball of wax. Decisions are made on need, player development, service time, and the supposed future of any and all players to the organization. Like this year, why give service time to non-40 man roster guys earlier than necessary. Right now, it would only contribute to a slight rise (if any) in the standings. Yes, rise up out of merit, but if there is nothing but a bench spot and you would be betetr served playing everyday or pitching every fifth day, why come up. You always have role players in this and most any other sport.

#14 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:08 PM

I am talkin GM rather than field manager (couldnt stop not knockin Gardy who's buggin me again) when I talk of this & I do stand by it. I take the Billy Beane approach (Moneyball book rather than movie) in they are assets/employees first....can be friendly with them also, but not friends to the point of affecting your judgement.
Does NOT mean you dont treat them well as people/players. May have gotten my point across wrong. Happy employees are harder working employees mostly. Think you may be getting that idea from me (was bein a tad sarcastic)....I am defiantely not against treating players well....very well in fact. Treat them better than other teams do.
My comments are from a front office view....who's job it is to run the company. You cannot refuse to make a move due to personel feelings for a player/coach etc. However, you HAVE to look at the treatment of a player & what the repercussions will be (dont think you can trade Josh as it makes players weary of signing a longer deal/fear of bein dealt for ex). Any player that cannot look at player moves from a front office (good or Bill Smith type bad ones) as bein business & not personal doesnt get the business.

#15 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:15 PM

I don't thin that I could possibly disagree with a forum entry more than I disagree with this one.

I truly LOVE the way the Brewers handled CC that Aug/Sept. It was the teams job to win & they tried to win/go for the series. They did nothing intentional to injure CC or do something they have to appologize for, but why should they keep him healthy for the team he signed with the next yr. There is no proof either way that more/less pitches per game hurt him. It didnt. They actually tried to win (something I wish this team would try more) every game.

#16 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:47 PM

I have no doubt in my mind that the Twins try to win every game they play.

#17 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:08 PM

obviously they TRY to win every gm, but the decision to NOT use Jaret Burton on 3 consucutive days (when leading in late innings) is an example of how they dont use everything they have to win every day....hope to win, but resting Jaret is more important than winning....that particular day. Twins often consider resting someone 'more important IMO' to winning (obviously they try to win tho). They havent done it last 2 yrs due to injuries, but the day game B squad out there in the series finale is another example. Trevor not playing today (when theyve said he COULD) to rest an injury 1 more day (tho this is farther down my list). That's what Im talkin bout.

#18 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:10 PM

Stress is having a couple young kids at home and being told your job won't be there Monday. Stress is learning your kid needs chemo and you don't have health insurance. Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid. Yes, ball players are human, but c'mon. Let's not pretend this is terribly "stressful."

#19 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:15 PM

Stress is having a couple young kids at home and being told your job won't be there Monday. Stress is learning your kid needs chemo and you don't have health insurance.

Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid.

Yes, ball players are human, but c'mon. Let's not pretend this is terribly "stressful."


Stress is based on perspective, not a rational examination of "this is how awful my life could be."

So yes, being traded could be a very stressful situation for players.

#20 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:52 PM

Stress is based on perspective, not a rational examination of "this is how awful my life could be."

So yes, being traded could be a very stressful situation for players.


Ummmm... this... life finds ways to put all things into proper perspective.

#21 mike wants wins

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:10 PM

Stress is internal. We all control how we react to what life throws at us. I would hope that a multi-millionaire would find the proper perspective in life to realize that they have it easy compared to 99.99+% of the world, and that they should not get stressed about this. That said, it isn't that easy, and we have been conditioned by our society to worry about a lot of stuff that isn't really worth worrying about, so I would imagine that the trade deadline is stressful to these guys.
Lighten up Francis....

#22 edavis0308

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:29 PM

I have no doubt in my mind that the Twins try to win every game they play.


Except for the month of April, and getaway day games.

#23 Seth Stohs

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:38 PM

Except for the month of April, and getaway day games.


I'm pretty much sure that, regardless of the lineup, the team is trying to win every game. Days off are part of the 162 game season. Has to be done. And, there have not been 'getaway day' lineups this year.

#24 edavis0308

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 04:29 PM

I'm pretty much sure that, regardless of the lineup, the team is trying to win every game. Days off are part of the 162 game season. Has to be done. And, there have not been 'getaway day' lineups this year.


Actually, I agree with you that they have done way better this year with afternoon game lineups. The April games and afternoon lineups just always seems to be a running joke. It seemed fitting.

#25 Paul

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 05:38 PM

Stress is having a couple young kids at home and being told your job won't be there Monday. Stress is learning your kid needs chemo and you don't have health insurance.

Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid.

Yes, ball players are human, but c'mon. Let's not pretend this is terribly "stressful."


I applaud your good sense, Chief

#26 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:27 PM

Team has been better with getaway lineups for sure.....more due to 3 person bench's than due to change of philosiphy from Gardy. As for Span & his stress, I lost repsect for him when earlier this year Gardy spoke of how 'devastated' Denard would be if he had to move to RF for Revere. The guy is mentally soft (not due to consussions either)

#27 drjim

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:28 PM

obviously they TRY to win every gm, but the decision to NOT use Jaret Burton on 3 consucutive days (when leading in late innings) is an example of how they dont use everything they have to win every day....hope to win, but resting Jaret is more important than winning....that particular day.
Twins often consider resting someone 'more important IMO' to winning (obviously they try to win tho). They havent done it last 2 yrs due to injuries, but the day game B squad out there in the series finale is another example. Trevor not playing today (when theyve said he COULD) to rest an injury 1 more day (tho this is farther down my list). That's what Im talkin bout.


There is a balance in this situation. You need to rest players so they will be good and able to perform over the long haul of a season and the years they are part of the team. If they pitch Burton, a guy who has been injured most of the past couple of seasons, too much and too frequently he will break down again. Slightly increasing the odds of one victory is not worth the risk of the player breaking down for the second half of the year, or being able to contribute next year. These are the tradeoffs managers need to make every year.

I often thought that this was a hidden strength of Gardy in the past decade. They would rest players in a manner that seemed excessive, but they were always a team that finished the regular season strong (and then get smoked in the playoffs). Obviously the last two seasons have rendered this moot.
Papers...business papers.

#28 drjim

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:33 PM

Stress is having a couple young kids at home and being told your job won't be there Monday. Stress is learning your kid needs chemo and you don't have health insurance.

Stress isn't the possibility that you'll have to move from one highly paid, pampered job to another, all expenses paid.

Yes, ball players are human, but c'mon. Let's not pretend this is terribly "stressful."


I don't know. If I worked for a company for ten years and then knew I had to up and move at a time not of my choosing to work the same job for a different company, even if I was being paid well, that would still be a pretty stressful time in my life.

Sure it's nowhere near the situations you mentioned, but I used to get stressed when I had a 10 page paper due in less than 2 days. Think how insignificant that is in the grand scheme of things.
Papers...business papers.

#29 Riverbrian

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 06:33 PM

Joe Mauer is perhaps the only player on this squad that can reasonably assume they are Twins for life. For everyone else...Trades... FA signings... Cuts... Are part of the game. Span may want to stay and thats great but I'm sure that Span knows that he could end up somewhere else. If trade talk effects him... We should move him for that reason. It wouldn't be good to have someone that unsteady on the roster. I don't believe for a second that Span can't handle trade talk.

#30 mnfireman

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:06 PM

This team is 25-23 since bottoming out at 15-32 on May 27. The teams needs are glaring (starting pitching and middle infield), but I don't think they should blow the team up because, while it MIGHT strengthen an area of weakness, it WILL weaken another area. Span, Willingham, Doumit and Perkins are good players on good contracts, Nishioka and Blackburn are bad players on bad contracts. Morneau is still serviceable and showing signs of improvement, though he might struggle when he returns. Mauer's contract is what it is and he is a future HOF'er at his current rate of production. The rest of the roster is interchangeable in that they aren't going to help another team, but aren't really hurting the Twins and there are more just like them at AA and AAA. A slow start by just about everyone hurt this team more than anything, plus the various injuries. Unless they are overwhelmed in a trade offer (which it sounds like Ryan is holding out for), keep 'em together, add some kids and free agents next year, keep drafting well and maybe, just maybe Your Minnesota Twins will catch lightening in a bottle sooner rather than later.