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Terry Ryan about to pull a Bill Smith?

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#1 darin617

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:27 PM

I just hope Mr. Ryan does not pull a Bill Smith with Francisco Liriano and try to hold out for that greater deal. They should offer him an extension and if he rejects it the Twins won't look as bad if/when they deal him.

#2 Thrylos

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:34 PM

Terry Ryan is about to pull a Terry Ryan and trade Liriano to the Yankees for 3 A-level prospects.
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#3 johnnydakota

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:36 PM

Terry Ryan is about to pull a Terry Ryan and trade Liriano to the Yankees for 3 A-level prospects.


correction 2 single a players and boof bonser

#4 darin617

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 08:57 PM

As long as they don't get another utility IF and another middle reliever.

#5 drjim

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:51 PM

I would argue that trading veterans for prospects is the greatest skill that Terry Ryan has shown in his career as a GM. Hope he can do it again.
Papers...business papers.

#6 Highabove

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:55 PM

The Twins may offer Liriano arbitration if Ryan does not get the Deal he wants. The Twins either get a high round pick or Liriano for another year. This could be a good deal for the Twins, if Ryan cannot obtain a good offer.

Edited by Highabove, 21 July 2012 - 10:48 PM.


#7 drjim

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:59 PM

The Twins may offer Liriano arbitration if Ryan does not get the Deal he wants.
The Twins either get two high round Draft Picks or Liriano for another year.
This could be a good deal for the Twins.


A good prospect in A ball is more valuable than the arb draft picks. Still almost certain that Liriano is traded.
Papers...business papers.

#8 darin617

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:19 PM

The Twins may offer Liriano arbitration if Ryan does not get the Deal he wants.
The Twins either get two high round Draft Picks or Liriano for another year.
This could be a good deal for the Twins.


Are you sure about the 2 possible draft picks? I thought with the new compensation it would only be 1 pick after the 1st round. Maybe someone can solve this who has more knowledge about the process...

#9 darin617

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:21 PM

A good prospect in A ball is more valuable than the arb draft picks. Still almost certain that Liriano is traded.


It also says the Twins at least $1 million or whatever the draft pick would sign for. That million saved could go towards a #3 starter who would become the #1 for the Twins in 2013.

#10 Bark's Lounge

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:31 PM

Liriano is tricky business. As Twins followers, I am sure that most of us feel like he will be no more consistent than he has shown us the last 4 years, but when he is going good he is definitely a super asset. If you can get 2 high end low level minor leaguers mixed in with some other stomachable pebbles of poop - you probably have to pull the trigger. The Twins will not take the risk in paying him 12+ M next year. Let's just hope they can keep the teeder-taughter of leverage leaning to their side. If there is no team that wants to meet our demands, you stop negotiating, keep Liriano, and take the loss after the season. Never build a legacy of being a chump trader... never!

#11 BrentMpls

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:34 PM

I just hope Mr. Ryan does not pull a Bill Smith with Francisco Liriano and try to hold out for that greater deal. They should offer him an extension and if he rejects it the Twins won't look as bad if/when they deal him.


I would be shocked if he doesn't accept an extension, should one be offered

#12 Highabove

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:46 PM

Are you sure about the 2 possible draft picks? I thought with the new compensation it would only be 1 pick after the 1st round. Maybe someone can solve this who has more knowledge about the process...


A Team losing the Free Agent is given one pick between the first and second round.

I stand corrected.

Edited by Highabove, 21 July 2012 - 10:49 PM.


#13 J-Dog Dungan

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:23 PM

Highabove, I think you were right the first time. If Liriano doesn't accept their qualifying offer and signs with another team, I believe that the team who lost the free agent gets two picks. But I could be completely wrong about this.

#14 striker_86

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:36 PM

bill smith would have kept liriano because we are only 12 games out of first and still have a shot at the division, Ryan is smarter than that

#15 Oxtung

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:21 AM

If the Twins make a qualifying offer, which right now would be ~$12.5M, and Liriano signs elsewhere the Twins would get 1 compensation pick after the first round. The team that signs Liriano would lose their first round pick but the Twins would NOT receive it. It is just a lost pick. The exception is if the team acquiring Liriano has a top 10 draft pick which are protected from loss. I believe they lose their second round pick instead in that case. Again, the Twins will only get 1 pick out of the deal and it will come in the compensation round following the first round.

This was explained well on mlbtraderumors.com...but now I can't find where. I'll see if I can dig up the link and check on the Top 10 pick exception.


***EDIT***
If a team signs a player who already has a qualifying offer, ie if Liriano is signed by let's say the Mariners, the Mariners would forfeit their top pick. If however the Mariners had a top 10 pick that year they would instead forfeit their next highest pick which could potentially be another 1st round pick or a compensation pick of their own.

http://www.mlbtrader...ion-system.html

Edited by Oxtung, 22 July 2012 - 12:34 AM.


#16 Highabove

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:46 AM

per Charley Walters

"Twins starter Francisco Liriano would prefer to remain in Minnesota rather than be traded, he said. Major league baseball's trade deadline is July 31.
"I love it here; I want to stay here," Liriano said. "But it's not my call."


Charley Walters: Twins' Francisco Liriano loves it in Minnesota - TwinCities.com


#17 Linus

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:45 AM

Ryan has shown much better ability to manage these situations than Smith ever did. I believe this is the correct path to take with Frankie (in this order): 1. Sign him to a team friendly extension. The Twins pitching problem is so extensive that they have to catch lightning in a bottle to fix it soon. If Liriano were to turn into a decent top of the rotation starter, this would be a huge step in solving the problem. Worth taking the gamble when you consider how few good pitchers are out there. 2. Trade him but only for a haul. There is no need to deal him "no matter what" - I don't get that mindset. 3. Keep him and offer the $12mil. If he takes it, we get another year to see what he can do, we gain a starter for next year which buys us some time for other pitchers to develop, etc. If he doesn't take the money, we still get a pick.

#18 Shane Wahl

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:59 AM

I would hope a trade involves some kind of possibly MLB ready capable starting pitcher and two lower-level prospects. I don't know if they can hold out for the more ideal AA or AAA top prospects.

#19 darin617

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:48 PM

[quote name='Bark's Lounge;36265]Liriano is tricky business. As Twins followers' date=' I am sure that most of us feel like he will be no more consistent than he has shown us the last 4 years, but when he is going good he is definitely a super asset. If you can get 2 high end low level minor leaguers mixed in with some other stomachable pebbles of poop - you probably have to pull the trigger. The Twins will not take the risk in paying him 12+ M next year. Let's just hope they can keep the teeder-taughter of leverage leaning to their side. If there is no team that wants to meet our demands, you stop negotiating, keep Liriano, and take the loss after the season. Never build a legacy of being a chump trader... never![/QUOTE']

What is the big deal about $12 million? If the Twins can pay $23 million for a player to hit for great average with the potential to maybe hit 10 HR in a season they can give Liriano $12 million.

#20 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:54 PM

Is there anyone in Twins land that doesnt believe if we sign Liriano to an extension today, that we wont get the Lirinao of April for the next month?? I do, but I am intrigued by signing him but favor a trade & THEN resignin him this offseason as everyone will still be leary of him.