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Baseball America updated prospect ranking

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#1 gunnarthor

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:13 AM

In the latest ask BA column, Callis suggests that Buxton would be #21 in baseball, one spot ahead of Sano. He put 7 recent draftees and one international signing in the new top 50.

#2 nicksaviking

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:25 AM

I notice that four players drafted after Alex Wimmers in the first round of the 2010 draft are ranked higher than Buxton.

#3 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:26 AM

And Appel would have been in the top 15 or so for all minor league pitchers.....so he's likely (if not hurt) to be in top of the class next year also (which is also what KLAW has been saying). Everyone loves Buxton....let's hope they are right.
Lighten up Francis....

#4 gunnarthor

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:29 AM

I notice that four players drafted after Alex Wimmers in the first round of the 2010 draft are ranked higher than Buxton.


Yeah, that Wimmers pick hurt. I also regret not taking Trout over Gibson but I still have hope for Gibson. Wasn't a big fan of the Wimmers pick in the first place.

#5 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:34 AM

Ouch, didn't notice that on Wimmers....and later picks.....not a fan of low risk picks in round 1, go for upside.....
Lighten up Francis....

#6 DPJ

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:39 PM

Wimmers will hopefully be the last time the Twins take another bullsh*t PTC low-ceiling pitcher again in the first round. God I hated that ****ing pick.

#7 Seth Stohs

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:04 PM

Yeah, that Wimmers pick hurt. I also regret not taking Trout over Gibson but I still have hope for Gibson. Wasn't a big fan of the Wimmers pick in the first place.


Imagine how upset Twins fans would have been if the team had taken Trout over Gibson that year....

And, Wimmers was an easy pick at that time as well, deemed by many experts the starting pitcher closest to the big leagues.

Injuries happen.

#8 Seth Stohs

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:06 PM

Wimmers will hopefully be the last time the Twins take another PTC low-ceiling pitcher again in the first round.


Is a future #3, maybe #2, a low ceiling pitcher?

#9 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:14 PM

You think it is likely at all he is a two? That would make him one of the fifty best pitchers in the game. I see super low chance....like almost zero.
Lighten up Francis....

#10 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:16 PM

Weird, it's like people in this thread are claiming that sometimes high draft picks in baseball don't work out! What a weird sport this is, we certainly know this isn't the case in the NFL, NBA or NHL. Seriously, Whimmers was a solid pick at the time, to go back and play captain hindsight now is stupid. Unless you had a legit gripe at the time like DPJ, but he hates everything the Twins do.

#11 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:18 PM

You think it is likely at all he is a two? That would make him one of the fifty best pitchers in the game. I see super low chance....like almost zero.


At the time he was drafted he had the #2 upside, though #3 was prob the far more likely scenario, also when he first hit the scenes in Ft Myers he dominated with 23 strike outs in 15.2 innings.

Nobody could predict that he would get the yips and then get injured (I think these things were actually one in the same at the end of the day)

Pitchers get hurt, it happens.

#12 DPJ

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:22 PM

Is a future #3, maybe #2, a low ceiling pitcher?


Future 3, maybe 2...are you kidding me. Where have the standards gone for pitchers?

Wimmers always had a fingy arsenal of pitches, a has a plus change but that was it. He was a backend starter at best with a low-ceiling but a good probability of hitting it.

But this looks like one first round pick that isn't gonna work out.

#13 Thrylos

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:28 PM

Imagine how upset Twins fans would have been if the team had taken Trout over Gibson that year....


Probably

And in the "Twins way" and the way Rantz develops players, Trout would have probably been in New Britain right now...
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#14 DPJ

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

Unless you had a legit gripe at the time like DPJ, but he hates everything the Twins do.


Well maybe if the made smarter moves we wouldn't have this garbage 90+ loss team to watch, hell everyone should hate everything the Twins do cause that's what has lead to this 100 million dollar mess.

#15 twinswon1991

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:36 PM

Probably

And in the "Twins way" and the way Rantz develops players, Trout would have probably been in New Britain right now...



Sadly true.

#16 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:38 PM

My opinion of wimmers upside has nothing to dwith his injury. He does not have Scott baker or better stuff not from any scouting report I have read. Maybe I am wrong, but to project someone as a two us to put them at or better than baker when baker is at his best. There just are not that many very good pitchers on the planet right now.
Lighten up Francis....

#17 FrodaddyG

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:44 PM

Sadly true.

No way.

Guy that young needs two seasons of short season ball. This would be his "repeating Beloit to learn to hit the ball the other way and move runners over" season.

#18 gunnarthor

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:45 PM

Imagine how upset Twins fans would have been if the team had taken Trout over Gibson that year....

And, Wimmers was an easy pick at that time as well, deemed by many experts the starting pitcher closest to the big leagues.

Injuries happen.


Good points, I liked the Gibson pick at the time and still do. I just wish we had Trout using 20/20 hindsight.

On Wimmers, I wasn't thrilled with the pick and wanted the Twins to do something else although I didn't know what the something else should be. I remember a lot of angst from fans for the Twins not taking HS pitching arm - Stetson Allie - but I didn't want him either. I understood the logic of the Wimmers pick but just didn't like it.

#19 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:48 PM

Well maybe if the made smarter moves we wouldn't have this garbage 90+ loss team to watch, hell everyone should hate everything the Twins do cause that's what has lead to this 100 million dollar mess.


To be fair you were hating on everything they were doing while they were winning 94 games..

#20 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:49 PM

IIRC Gibson was considered a top 5 or top 10 talent who only fell due to injury concerns, if anything it was very un twins to take a risk on a high upside guy like that in the first round.

#21 DPJ

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

To be fair you were hating on everything they were doing while they were winning 94 games..


Cause it was coming Dave, I didnt think it would be this bad and this fast but I knew the down side on it's way. NTM playing in the AL Central covers alot of things.

The poors trades, the poor drafts, the poor signings. They were easy to gloss over when they team was in contention, but sooner of later it was all gonna hit the major league team and f*ck if it didn't hit them hard.

#22 FrodaddyG

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:55 PM

To be fair you were hating on everything they were doing while they were winning 94 games..

But, to be fair, the stuff they were doing a couple years ago left them in the predicament they're in now.

#23 gunnarthor

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:56 PM

IIRC Gibson was considered a top 5 or top 10 talent who only fell due to injury concerns, if anything it was very un twins to take a risk on a high upside guy like that in the first round.


Yep, he was a good pick. TJ surgery is unfortunate but I'm glad the Twins made a pick like that. (Just that Trout turned out to be some super insane talent).

#24 birdwatcher

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:12 PM

You know, we're seeing the same convenient memories here from the same Twins bashers. DJP, the way-overused pitch to contact mantra and the same old soft tosser crap gets thrown out like the garbage it is. You appear to recall almost nothing from the scouting reports on Wimmers at the time he was drafted. What did his FB top out at during his collegiate career, DJP? Many scouts had him pegged as a 2-3 starter with an acceptable ability to miss bats. And Mike, help me out with how different the scouting reports were for Baker versus Wimmers. Why did Baker fall to the Twins instead of being scooped up later in the first round like Gibson and Wimmers?

#25 nicksaviking

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

Imagine how upset Twins fans would have been if the team had taken Trout over Gibson that year....

And, Wimmers was an easy pick at that time as well, deemed by many experts the starting pitcher closest to the big leagues.

Injuries happen.


Had the Twins let Santana walk and taken the comp picks instead of getting a grab bag from the Mets, they may have been able to have Gibson, Trout and Tyler Skaggs had Santana's Elias ranking in the AL remained higher than Francisco Rodriguez's and Mark Teixeiria's following the 2008 season. Those two players were what netted the Angel's those two high ceiling picks in 2009.

Everyone did agree Wimmers was the closest to the big leagues and before the draft, everyone also agreed that he was going to the Twins at pick 21. So at least 20 other teams agreed that taking upside is a better move than playing it safe, yet every scout, analyst and agent had the Twins pegged perfectly.

#26 mike wants wins

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

I did not pay attention to scouting reports when baker was in the minors. No idea.* *edited for spelling...

Edited by mike wants wins, 17 July 2012 - 02:54 PM.

Lighten up Francis....

#27 birdwatcher

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:20 PM

Oh, and thrylos, Trout would be languishing in AA if he were a Twin? I call complete bulls*it on you there. A future all-star languishing in AA because that's how incompetent the Twins are. Just like they screwed up like that with Hrbek, Mauer, Puckett, Wynegar,.....oh, this list goes on and on and on, thrylos. You don't have evidence to support the ridiculous claim you make over and over and over, thrylos. It's just another of your tired, untrue characterizations.

#28 DPJ

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:23 PM

Change-up was his best pitch followed by a decent curve (average) Plus command and a fringy at best fastball. Low ceiling but a very good chance of hitting it. Unless he suddenly gained 5-6 mph on his fastball Wimmers never had a chance to be a 2 or even a 3. He was a backend guy who would get to the majors quickly. Nothing wrong with guys like that, but not what I wanted.

#29 nicksaviking

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:27 PM

Wimmer's scouting report was great control with a good curve and change up and a fastball that touched 92. Everyone agreed that he would probably be on the fast track to the majors but his low velocity would not enable him to be an ace. I don't remember anybody being excited with the Wimmers pick. Everyone knew it was coming, but most people were pleading to take someone with some velocity and upside, particularly because a year after drafting Gibson, BA and the other rankings gave us Twins fans a kick to the gut by saying Gibson was good but didn't have the strikeout potential to be an true ace.

#30 Jeremy Nygaard

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

I was high on Trout coming into the draft. The northeast had experienced a crazy-wet spring in 2009, so Trout hadn't been seen as much as he would have been in a normal year. I remember the Twins were high on Jio Mier. I liked Gibson, but figured he'd be out of the Twins reach. Jared Mitchell (a former Twins pick) was also projected to go around that time. As the draft progressed, I figured it would be one of those four - hoping for Gibson, hoping against Mier and would have been happy with either outfielder. When it was Gibson, I was ecstatic... the Twins added a top-flight arm to their system. I'd be lying if I said I'd go back and do it differently. Wimmers in 2010 was not a well-kept secret. At the time, we believed he'd join the staff with Gibson... he was just like the good Kevin Slowey. Again, hard to be mad at that move.